[macawlaw]

I disagree. I became a proponent of vocational education when I was a juvenile prosecutor. Many of these teenagers who I dealt with were not academic, but they had tremendous skills in other areas. Not every one is wired to learn academic material easily. Why set them up to fail?

My work as a Guardian ad Litem and attorney in children's services cases reinforced this initial impression. I have seen numerous kids not succeeding academically (and often getting in trouble) go to vocational school and fly. The difference is astounding.

I don't know about you, but I need a car mechanic, an HVAC professional, and a good plumber who I can rely on.

Those students who have the ability to go to college should. My husband is a college professor, and I have one in college in engineering and one starting medical school in the fall. Our family obviously supports academics. Even more so, we support the individual and recognize that everyone has different God-given talents.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MrFlorida

You need to get a degree so you can pay the craftsman to do the work for you....( I'll bet he makes as much as you do )

I worked construction (building custom homes) for three summers while in HS and College...

Even though I loved the work, learned a ton and it got me into the best shape of my (young) life, I quickly realized that I didn't want to do that for the rest of my life.

It convinced ME that I wanted to go to college and then to grad school.

I can do a lot of my own "home projects". I tiled the floor and tub surround and installed all of the fixtures for the bathroom and built out a cedar closet in the basement of my first home. I can do basic carpentry, drywall and plumbing (not a big fan of electricity, but I will change out fixtures and ceiling fans), run cable, install crown and baseboard molding, paint, change out door locks, etc...

I still do the little things myself, like change out my irrigation system and install my alarm system. But at this stage of my life, I prefer to fix most things with a checkbook...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Gator_Girl

Those who aren't able to get a college degree

Able? Some of the construction workers I've known could run circles around some of the college graduates I've known...

One of my long term patients never went to college. He started a landscape business, mowing lawns. He's now a multi-millionaire...

[guitarguy]

There is a lot of academic snobbery in leadership at k-12 public schools. They have been quick to cut vo-tech programs because they are expensive to start and maintain. It’s much cheaper to buy 30 textbooks (or cheap laptops) and offer a general education class.

[jojo]

I was the state director for career-technical and adult education in Ohio. In early years, vocational education just taught the skills needed for employment. As the skills in the trades became more sophisticated with technology, the curriculum for career-technical studies had to include more advanced communication, mathematics and science. This was quite a challenge since most of our instructors came directly from business and industry. Our goal was for students to graduate with the skills needed for employment and prepared for further education in public universities or 2-year tech schools. We developed programs that are common now for our more advanced career-tech students to earn considerable community college credits. Career technical studies in high school helped many students choose a career path or as importantly decide that career was not for them .

[Remembergoldenrule]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

It's interesting that 4 of the 5 jobs you cited are in the medical field, where medical insurance drives up the cost of everything. But, in the medical field, those with a college degree make more money than the technicians.

I agree with your conclusion about doctors and Rn’s making more than techs. My point was you can go to tech school and make more than some fields that require a four year degree.Doctors however can’t do their jobs without techs. Techs do not cause medical prices to go up. The greed of the people who own the medical companies and insurance companies along with government mandates cause medical prices to go up.

Also, when my kids decided to go to college one of the requirements was that they show us on various job sites what actual job and what actual pay they could get with the degree. You have to research actual requirements.
There are tons of very successful people who never attended college and have a million or two in savings and loved their job their entire working career.

Ps when I need a mechanic I don’t care if has a mechanical engineering degree and his hourly rate is probably just as high.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

So if everybody goes to college who is going to do the hard work?

Well, in the over 20-year Future, machines will be doing the hard work.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by spinner1001

A growing trend of people do not believe in the _value_ of a college degree that university is worth it. A recent survey shows 56% of people do not believe it is worth the cost. The skepticism is strongest in 18-34 year olds. Reasons are complicated. And things are different now compared to when we went to university decades ago; so our experience may have little relevance to what is occurring now. Regardless of your opinion, these current widespread beliefs in younger people will cause significant changes in higher education (e.g., declining enrollment and funding) and employer hiring (e.g., no college degree required) in years to come.

The plot here is derived from surveys of the Wall Street Journal and NORC at the University of Chicago.

Americans Are Losing Faith in College Education, WSJ-NORC Poll Finds - WSJ

In the last 10 years, college costs have ROCKETED upward. Upper-level college management saw Wall St. executives and industrial CEOs making outrageous salaries, so they wanted their piece of the pie. And college football and other coaches demanded about 20 times what they are worth.
.......the end result - college students suffer AND they know they are in a HELPLESS position. So, many are now rejecting college and saying "blue collar" is good enough for them.
........Also many are enlisting in the military.
........This is just a normal and predictable reaction of young people to the GREED of the Colleges and Universities
..........Notice how society gets slighted as the "best and brightest" are NOT becoming educated to their fullest potential. I wonder if China and Russia are cheering for the US to blunder in higher education?????

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by macawlaw

I disagree. I became a proponent of vocational education when I was a juvenile prosecutor. Many of these teenagers who I dealt with were not academic, but they had tremendous skills in other areas. Not every one is wired to learn academic material easily. Why set them up to fail?

My work as a Guardian ad Litem and attorney in children's services cases reinforced this initial impression. I have seen numerous kids not succeeding academically (and often getting in trouble) go to vocational school and fly. The difference is astounding.

I don't know about you, but I need a car mechanic, an HVAC professional, and a good plumber who I can rely on.

Those students who have the ability to go to college should. My husband is a college professor, and I have one in college in engineering and one starting medical school in the fall. Our family obviously supports academics. Even more so, we support the individual and recognize that everyone has different God-given talents.

My point is that everyone has the ability to go to college. It is a myth that college is only for "intelligent" people. Getting a college degree is as easy as falling off a rock.

[tuccillo]

Depends on the field of study. LDT ? Probably. Math ? No. Hard sciences? No. Engineering ? No. However, persistence and hardwork will get you far if you aren't the smartest guy in the class.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

My point is that everyone has the ability to go to college. It is a myth that college is only for "intelligent" people. Getting a college degree is as easy as falling off a rock.

[Bay Kid]

If you are going to college at least study something that will make you a good living and be able to pay your bills.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

In the last 10 years, college costs have ROCKETED upward. Upper-level college management saw Wall St. executives and industrial CEOs making outrageous salaries, so they wanted their piece of the pie. And college football and other coaches demanded about 20 times what they are worth.
.......the end result - college students suffer AND they know they are in a HELPLESS position. So, many are now rejecting college and saying "blue collar" is good enough for them.
........Also many are enlisting in the military.
........This is just a normal and predictable reaction of young people to the GREED of the Colleges and Universities
..........Notice how society gets slighted as the "best and brightest" are NOT becoming educated to their fullest potential. I wonder if China and Russia are cheering for the US to blunder in higher education?????

College tuition has been skyrocketing much longer than the last 10 years...

College football coaches get paid "exactly" what they are worth... They get paid what the market will bear. Plus, most of them run programs that actually make money for the schools and fund the other sports programs than make nothing...

It the GOVERNMENT that caused college tuition to spiral. They keep increasing the amount of $$$ you can borrow and, by coincidence, college tuition goes up by that very same amount, year after year... Color me surprised...

Military enlistment is down. WAY down...

Oh, yeah, one more thing.... GREED! Everybody drink!

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Going back to my grandfather most of the men in my family and now 2 nieces have been union iron workers , starting out around $50,000 and going very fast to $100,, college is niece in fact both nieces finished jr college , but they love the thrill of being up high , , I still like the advice I read somewhere , find something you like to do and it’ll never feel like work , or something like that

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

Depends on the field of study. LDT ? Probably. Math ? No. Hard sciences? No. Engineering ? No. However, persistence and hardwork will get you far if you aren't the smartest guy in the class.

That's true for most people. But, for me, getting an engineering degree was a piece of cake. It would have been more difficult to get a liberal arts degree.

[npwalters]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent.



I fear that the bolded statement is becoming truer every day. Many colleges have lowered their standards in order to be inclusive. High schools are pumping out graduates that can barely read (my wife was a HS teacher for many years). Yet a "not very intelligent" person in a position that actually needs a college degree is destined to fail.

There is a large segment of the population that can be successful in a trade. They will probably be happier too.