government sponsored healthcare systems

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2008, 10:49 PM
Just Susan Just Susan is offline
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Default government sponsored healthcare systems

Just got this email from a friend. Very interesting. What are your thoughts?

A short but poignant independent film on government sponsored healthcare systems.
Everyone who plans to vote for our new President in 2008 NEEDS to see this. Regardless of the person for whom they would vote.

http://www.freemarketcure.com/brainsurgery.php
  #2  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

I remember seeing that video awhile back. I also remember hearing a rumour that the video was not in fact true. True or not it is a scary scenario. I have a sister in Canada and I know they did have some serious start up problems with their social medicine. I believe they now have a supplemental system for additional healthcare. As you know we already have a form of social medicine that no one is denied emergency care. Working people pay the bill for that care now. It's a hidden overhead cost that gets rolled into the insured people's bill and taxes. No government medicine will ever compare to free market medicine at any cost.

Think about this, if the US goes to social medicine and we want to go over the boarder for help what do you think is south of us? The very people that want to come north.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:34 PM
Just Susan Just Susan is offline
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

I don't know which is worse a Health Care system run by the HMO's or one run by the government. Neither in my opinion considers the individual as anything more than a pawn to be moved around for self serving purposes. (whoa, my cynical side is showing)

I do know about our free healthcare for those can't pay whether by choice or circumstance. I work with drug and alcohol addicted prostitutes, many of whom, due to their issues, are on SSI and other forms of "free" healthcare. Some really need it, others are working the system. We pay for all of them.

The sad gap is the working middle class that can't afford health insurance and don't get it at work.

This is an issue that has many answers and none.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:18 PM
Hope2b Hope2b is offline
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

No way do I want the government taking care of my health. Been there-done that. Grew up as a military brat and married a man in the military. Hours on the phone to get an appointment. Having a great doctor one time and one who was just there to serve his time the next. Many times bossed around instead of a smile when I went in. I went to a civilian doctor when I was really sick and she said "Why don't you ever come in when you are not so sick" Why in the world would you see a doctor if you are not sick? Wow what a novel idea. Sister died of a brain tumor because she was seen by so many different military doctors who did not have time or did not care to read her chart when seeing her.
  #5  
Old 01-28-2008, 04:07 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

Why does it have to be either government healthcare or business as usual?

The problem I see with friends who are still trying to retire or who have their own businesses is that individuals have no real access to good health insurance at a decent price. - or at any price.

Why can't the plan that our privileged Congress has be made available for hardworking Americans to buy into at a reasonable cost?

I know people who have tried to buy individual plans and have found that either the cost is prohibitive to start with or you are in real trouble if you actually have to use the plan.

People who are retiring now from jobs that are under our state retirement system still have their own healthcare in place, but to carry a spouse on the retiree health plan costs thousands and thousand of dollars in annual premiums.

And those who have retired early from major corporations are finding that although they may have coverage under the former employer, the retiree contribution goes up and up each year. And some retirees are always waiting for the other shoe to drop because many corporations reserve the right to cancel those plans.

There are a lot of boomers who have to work until 65. Just imagine the stress-related illnesses that might be headed off if said boomers could retire early because they could have access to BUY healthcare at a reasonable cost. -- not to mention the jobs that could open to younger people. It all sounds good to me, but what do I know?

It's a big, big picture that affects all of us, whether we are covered or not. I do not like the idea of government healthcare, nor do I like it when CEO's reap bonuses of more millions than anyone could ever spend while their companies deny patients.

And then there is big pharma. When drug cards came on the scene as part of our coverage at work, it was like letting in the Trojan Horse. We went to the drugstore, slapped that card down, maybe paid a few bucks, and went on our merry way while prices went up, up, up, and we did not notice. I am all for research and pipelines. But the tail is wagging the dog that is big pharma.

Pushing the political button for the chant, "No government healthcare" gives politicians the knee-jerk voter response they need to continue to not address the problem. It's quite a diversionary tactic.

The solution is not either/or.

The people I know who are facing a problem with their healthcare are not looking for a free ride. They just want to be able to buy a ticket to ride. The US needs a plan to provide affordable access to good coverage. ...But, alas, such a plan would sure tick off a bunch of lobbyists.




  #6  
Old 01-28-2008, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

Great post Boomer.

Make health insurance affordable is all the government should try to do. Nothing more. And they probably can't do that right. Maybe provide low cost clinics for those who can't afford the insurance. But let those that can't afford it have access to care, just don't punish all of us to provide it. By punish I mean waiting excessive amount of time for care, sub standard care, but not the cost of care.

If the government does anything at all, at most it should provide low cost clinics in every state, with a fixed fee to visit, staff it with volunteers and interns, utilize generic drugs only, and let anyone use them. If we want the low cost or can't afford insurance, then put up with the wait and inconvenience and lower skilled health care. Provide normal health care by creating mass insurance pools so everyone pays about the same for insurance. Lower doctors malpractice insurance by putting limits on tort amounts and for those that lose a second malpractice case, make them do a year service in the clinics. If it happens again remove their license to practise. This alone would lower insurance cost health care by more then 20%.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

The very idea that government can make affordable AND quality healthcare available is a contradiction in itself.

Just ask the people in Canada what government healthcare provided and mandated to all has done for them. They come here.

Guys like Newt Gingrich and his think tank of non-partisans have some more plausible ideas. Our government in DC is such a 'dirty' place, they couldn't do anything for the good of the people because they are too interested in themselves and what makes them look good or the latest sound bite. Oh, and you may be comforted that Hillary "feels your pain." :bow:
  #8  
Old 01-28-2008, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

I second that emotion Musician. :bigthumbsup:
  #9  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:47 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

Musician.

What do Newt and friends have to say about healthcare? - and who are they saying it to? Just point me in the right direction and I will read up on it.

I agree that DC is a dirty town, all around, no matter who's in town.

Newt or somebody better do something.

I think so many Americans are simply overwhelmed or figure they are past or above it all or just stick their heads in the sand or wherever, pulling them out only long enough to :edit: and moan, but that's the end of it. Outrage is no more.

"Boomsday" is a book by Christopher Buckley. Satire. Buckley also wrote "Thank You for Smoking" which hit the big screen. This one will, too. I'm sure. It's about Boomers - The Unfunded Liability - in the hands of politicians.

--and don't even get me started on that stupid, vote-buying stimulus plan.

When I move to TV, if I ever do, could I start a club where people could all talk about this stuff but then just go out to eat or play golf or something? That's about as far as my plan, in reality, goes. ...But wait! I did just see something on CNN about all that political clout the people in TV have.

It's a fine mess they've got us in and like it or not, we're in it together.

  #10  
Old 01-28-2008, 08:59 PM
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Boomer. We are in total agreement. I read the Newt information some time ago. If I can find it again, I will post it. If it's too lengthy, I'll just post the url.
  #11  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

I'm blessed to have retirement insurance from my employer and they fund it at 80% them to 20% me, so premium increases have been reasonable.

There are several facets to this problem of getting reasonably good healthcare at reasonable prices.

First - why does our system cost double that of the rest of the industrialized world? That "ain't" right?

Second - those who have insurance with caps generally go for the max care possible, the sky is the limit, somehow as consumers, we really should be making financial choices too. When is there "too much". And I've had cancer and know firsthand how much this runs, hundreds of thousands.

Third - Lobbyists and the government, maybe it all needs to be torn down and started again.

Doctors/providers, insurance companies , customers (like us) and the government, it's a very complex problem . I'm not really sure what would work
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

"The people I know who are facing a problem with their healthcare are not looking for a free ride. They just want to be able to buy a ticket to ride....(Boomer)

Well said Boomer, I agree. I don't know how we get there, but the bottom line for me is not free healthcare, but...
affordable healthcare,
reasonably priced prescriptions,
cost effective means of preventative healthcare such as;
health club memberships and preventative medical visits for screening & testing,
nutrition and education

I think if healthcare was affordable on the preventative side of an illness, etc. less would be spent on the curing side.

I truly don't trust the government or big business to in its current format to achieve these goals. "They" need to drop immediate gratification/quick fix attitude and go for the long term. Good bottom line now with disaster down the road is so common these days. Can't they see this or don't they care as long as "they" get theirs. It is so awful to think that is true.

Perhaps they should read the comments on this forum and take the good advice that has been offered here.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

Boomer: Here is a site to start with -- //www.ontheissues.org/2008/Newt_Gingrich_Health_Care.htm

Also, if you Google on Newt Gingrich on healthcare, there are several links to follow

John: I agree that this is a complex issue and there are several ways of crafting something better than what we have now going forward. Newt at least comes to the table with plausible ideas and thinkers that are trying to get something better without all the BS of politics. The other side of this is getting people as our representatives that truly do represent us. But, that's a whole 'nother subject !
  #14  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:52 PM
Bill345 Bill345 is offline
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

Step 1--Excess profits tax on trial attorneys to pay for insurance for those who cannot afford it 8)
  #15  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: government sponsored healthcare systems

Musician, you're right, Newt usually has some interesting approaches. I'll check it out.
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