[Bellaboy]

How do guns save lives? (Besides war)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Bellaboy

How do guns save lives? (Besides war)

There are many incidents every year where a gun is used in self-defense. There are also incidents that don't get reported where a gun is drawn in defense of a threat and the threat goes away.

The purpose of a handgun is self-defense and the defense of those around the gun holder.

[Steve9930]

Its amazing how someone breaks the law and all the misinformed want to make the law abiding take the blame. The man had an illegal gun. One that is highly regulated and controlled. Or he used modern technology to modify a weapon to make it illegal. This incident proves beyond a shadow of a doubt Laws will not work to solve this problem. Once everyone realizes that fact we can then move to solve the problem. Freedom comes with risk. Sometimes some people will abuse those freedoms.

[Fredster]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

There are hints that these were two machine guns mounted on tripods. How the hell would be get a hold of these and get them into a hotel room?

Hints? Why not wait until real facts are known and released?

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Fredster

Hints? Why not wait until real facts are known and released?

I agree. The only fact is it was automatic fire. Now I'd like to know how he was able to obtain the weapon or weapons. You just can't go down to the local gun shop and buy a fully automatic firearm.

[kcrazorbackfan]

The original post of this massacre should not be a stage for political "what ifs"; 59+ families are never going to be with a member of their family again and 500+ families have a member of their family with a long road of mental and physical recovery ahead of them.

Being a retired LEO, I know what both groups of families have ahead of them; pray for the Police Officers, pray for the EMT's, pray for the hospital staffs, pray for the survivors and most of all, pray for the victims and their families.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

The original post of this massacre should not be a stage for political "what ifs"; 59+ families are never going to be with a member of their family again and 500+ families have a member of their family with a long road of mental and physical recovery ahead of them.

Being a retired LEO, I know what both groups of families have ahead of them; pray for the Police Officers, pray for the EMT's, pray for the hospital staffs, pray for the survivors and most of all, pray for the victims and their families.

I agree. Concert goers, movie goers, school children, college students, shoppers, people just living their lives . . . how do we as a society get this to end?

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Schaumburger

I agree. Concert goers, movie goers, school children, college students, shoppers, people just living their lives . . . how do we as a society get this to end?

I believe the first step in figuring out how to stop this type of horrific occurrence, is trying to determine the motivation of this person.

Hopefully, something will be found...on why he did it.

There's no question that he had a reason (regardless of how warped or unjustified)...but that's no guarantee that we will ever know for sure.

Then the hard part comes when we, as a society, come together and agree...on what steps to take to try and minimize the chances of it occurring again.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

I believe the first step in figuring out how to stop this type of horrific occurrence, is trying to determine the motivation of this person.

Hopefully, something will be found...on why he did it.

There's no question that he had a reason (regardless of how warped or unjustified)...but that's no guarantee that we will ever know for sure.

Then the hard part comes when we, as a society, come together and agree...on what steps to take to try and minimize the chances of it occurring again.

He may not have had any motive other than to kill as many people as possible. Some people are just extremely warped. Maybe his autopsy will reveal something or his communications? FBI investigates Reno house owned by shooting suspect Looks like he has a home in a golf community west of Reno, Nevada. It appears he was extremely well off.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Chi33

The guy have a 400,000$ home in a retirement community

He was a multi-millionaire, a professional gambler and had many real estate holdings. His father was on the FBI most wanted list for eight years after escaping prison for bank robberies.

Stephen Paddock is an enigma and his motivation may never be uncovered. He robbed innocent people of their lives and harmed seriously other people who were enjoying a country music event.. I cannot find any reason not to loathe him.

Awful. Heartbreaking. Senseless. So many, many people suffering.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by blueash

If Sandy Hook where children were slaughtered didn't change the discussion, this won't either. One of the few actual pieces of legislation that has been passed by this congress and signed by this president was to eliminate a rule to keep weapons out the hands of those deemed incompetent, which would not have prevented this event. But it shows our priorities. For further evidence see the election eve rally of Senator to be Roy Moore of Alabama and the bill working its way thru Congress now to deregulate silencers so shooters can fire and not have their gunshots heard. Big need for that.

The legislation to which you refer would have prevented anyone receiving Social Security and who used an intermediary to help them with financial matters when dealing with the SS Administration from obtaining a firearm.

We always have to look into the details of bills that are passed. The name and what we are told they are are often misleading.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I would not believe anything about converting to automatic until the investigation releases it. Those parts are still class 3. And extremely expensive. You can buy a silencer also but that also is class 3. Anything class 3 is highly regulated. You can buy the auto bolt but that does not make it auto. The bolt is also a class 3 device and regulated. Here's something no one will like to here. The age of computer manufacturing is now affordable and can be done in your home. You also do not need to be a mechanical engineer to produce your own weapon. For a few thousand dollars I can make an assault rifle semi-auto or fully auto all with equipment purchased over the internet. With some steal stock and a little prepackaged software and the milling equipment it can be done relatively easily. So how do you legislate that from happening. Its obviously this guy was intent on killing lots of people. We all have opinions on this some based on facts and some on falsie. Today we are upset about what happened in Las Vegas but we ignore the fact that we as a society do not put much value on life. We let the killing fields of Chicago go on and on and we kill millions of unborn children for our personal convenience. Until we change that attitude you can expect this to continue no matter what laws are passed.

It's been reported on at least three different networks that he had multiple AR-15 that had not only been converted to fully automatic but also converted from .223 ammo to .308.

I agree with you that I don't usually listen to reports until all the information is in, but the fact that three different networks provided the same information that was said to come from a Nevada police representative and the fact that the information was so detailed, I tend to think that this is true.

[rivaridger1]

There is " evil " in this world with no scientific evidence of its existence. This individual's mind was warped in some fashion and he was somehow motivated by something to do this most heinous act. It is likely we will never know exactly why. According to the " news " this morning he had ten suitcases in his room and a legal semi-automatic weapon ( an AK-47 ) which had been modified to be fully automatic. Presumably the long guns were broken down and brought into the room in those suitcases. It is obvious, with the brilliance associated with 20-20 hindsight, a security device at the hotels entrance through which all luggage is passed, would have detected these rifles without violating anyone's constitutional rights. Visit most of the corporate skyscrapers in New York and other major cities, and just about any Federal/State government facilities, and you will see them being used. They are also used at many public, venues and at all NFL and MLB stadiums. Should there be mandatory security at any building to which the public has access taller then ??? stories ( make it any number you want to ) ? It would be something fairly easy to enforce with building codes and while expensive, quite affordable in the scheme of things by the owners of these buildings. Even better, no ones constitutional rights are violated. Let's concentrate on the things we can do as a society to prevent a repeat of this event and also think outside the box and try to be smarter then the next " evil " person who decides to commit something similar to what this loon accomplished. Yes, it involves the expenditure of money and probably a lot of it. My thinking is that it is worth every dollar if one life is saved in the future.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

It's been reported on at least three different networks that he had multiple AR-15 that had not only been converted to fully automatic but also converted from .223 ammo to .308.

I agree with you that I don't usually listen to reports until all the information is in, but the fact that three different networks provided the same information that was said to come from a Nevada police representative and the fact that the information was so detailed, I tend to think that this is true.

Now some facts: Can you convert an AR15 to full auto? Yes. Is it legal? No. Can you do it for $50 like the network said? No. Is it easily done? Depends on your skill. It requires changing the bolt carrier which you can buy. That part alone is $100 but still does not make it full auto. However the auto sear necessary to make it full auto to drop into the lower unit does not fit into an AR15. You have to re-machine the lower unit. Also that auto sear is a class 3 device that would have to be manufactured before 1986 to be legal. Its highly regulated by ATF. So how did this jerk do it. I suspect he manufactured his own or purchased it illegally. Changing caliber is a piece of cake. You just buy a new upper assemble. That part is not regulated. The part that makes the weapon work is the lower unit. Its the regulated part of the weapon. The components inside the lower unit determine if its semi or auto fire. What this proves to me is this was planned for a long time. He was intent on killing as many people as possible. 308 vs 223 proves he wanted to be as deadly as possible. 308 is basically a 7.62 round associated which is AK47 caliber. Much more devastating then the 223. Yes it appears law enforcement has confirmed he had modified ARs into full auto. Doable but not easily. Also highly illegal. When some one wants to kill laws are not a deterrent. My questions are this: With all those weapons in the room why did not someone say something? With as deranged as this man had to be, there were no signs he was crazy? I just find that very hard to believe.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by rivaridger1

There is " evil " in this world with no scientific evidence of its existence. This individual's mind was warped in some fashion and he was somehow motivated by something to do this most heinous act. It is likely we will never know exactly why. According to the " news " this morning he had ten suitcases in his room and a legal semi-automatic weapon ( an AK-47 ) which had been modified to be fully automatic. Presumably the long guns were broken down and brought into the room in those suitcases. It is obvious, with the brilliance associated with 20-20 hindsight, a security device at the hotels entrance through which all luggage is passed, would have detected these rifles without violating anyone's constitutional rights. Visit most of the corporate skyscrapers in New York and other major cities, and just about any Federal/State government facilities, and you will see them being used. They are also used at many public, venues and at all NFL and MLB stadiums. Should there be mandatory security at any building to which the public has access taller then ??? stories ( make it any number you want to ) ? It would be something fairly easy to enforce with building codes and while expensive, quite affordable in the scheme of things by the owners of these buildings. Even better, no ones constitutional rights are violated. Let's concentrate on the things we can do as a society to prevent a repeat of this event and also think outside the box and try to be smarter then the next " evil " person who decides to commit something similar to what this loon accomplished. Yes, it involves the expenditure of money and probably a lot of it. My thinking is that it is worth every dollar if one life is saved in the future.

We all should be trying to think of ways to stop the next monster from doing his or her evil deeds. This man looked just like some very successful retiree but whoever could do something like this must have shown some signs of being capable of such evil actions as this. One thing. Do not hold concerts where there is an elevated perch of some kind available for some nut with military style weapons.