[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

DeSantis hasn't forbidden airlines from mandating vaccine passports. The airport itself is in Florida, not international territory. But he hasn't dictated to Qatar Airlines, or Delta, or United that it is not "allowed" to show proof of immunity for its international flights. Why has he singled out cruise ships? He needs to just change his mind and say "y'know what, after further reflection, I realize this was a bad move. I hereby rescind this previous rule."

In other words, he needs to demonstrate that he is a sentient human being.

Interesting advice.

Those boarding international flights must satisfy the requirements of the destination since they will be leaving the plane. I could stay on the ship and never enter another country.

(The laws on entering territorial waters may come into play and might be the loophole needed to get to a resolution.)

[Boilerman]

News reports are saying this afternoon that the Florida lawsuit against the CDC has been declared an impasse by the mediator assigned to the case. It doesn’t say what the next step would be to resolve the lawsuit.

I also saw that the state of Alaska says that if Florida wins against the CDC, then all Alaskan cruises this summer would be canceled. I can’t explain the connection, but it sounds like the mess is now growing beyond Florida.

DeSantis needs to drop the lawsuit and provide an exemption to the new Florida law for cruises.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

The reason none of the cruise lines have joined in the DeSantis lawsuit is because they want all their passengers vaccinated. Why? Because 80% of cruisers have said they won’t cruise unless everyone is vaccinated. If the DeSantis lawsuit against the CDC wins and the new Florida law is enforced, the cruise lines will lose 80% of their customers.

I predict that DeSantis will proceed with an exception to the new Florida law. They are discussing the idea that once you’ve stepped on the cruise ship, you’re in international waters and therefore not subject to the new Florida law.

Of course that’s never been true. International waters starts 12 miles from shore. But DeSantis will have to do something to save face and back down.

I'm not sure where you get that 80% statistic from. Most of the people that I know will not cruise if there are vaccine and mask mandates or social distancing requirements on cruise ships.

[Boilerman]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I'm not sure where you get that 80% statistic from. Most of the people that I know will not cruise if there are vaccine and mask mandates or social distancing requirements on cruise ships.

I was wrong, it’s 85%.

“ A recent survey of more than 2,000 people from Cruise Critic indicated that vaccine requirements are extremely popular. In the poll, 85% of people said they would take a cruise if people were required to be inoculated against COVID-19 in advance, versus just 7% who said they would not sail if such a policy were in place.”

I think the assumption is that if vaccines are required, then masks and social distancing will not be needed. Much like the signs we are seeing today at many retail stores.

Planning to take a cruise this year? You may not be allowed on board without a COVID-19 vaccination - MarketWatch

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

I was wrong, it’s 85%.

“ A recent survey of more than 2,000 people from Cruise Critic indicated that vaccine requirements are extremely popular. In the poll, 85% of people said they would take a cruise if people were required to be inoculated against COVID-19 in advance, versus just 7% who said they would not sail if such a policy were in place.”

I think the assumption is that if vaccines are required, then masks and social distancing will not be needed. Much like the signs we are seeing today at many retail stores.

Planning to take a cruise this year? You may not be allowed on board without a COVID-19 vaccination - MarketWatch

I guess we would have to know if the people who took that poll even live in the United States. They could be in other countries for all we know. The regular cruisers that I have talked to do not want vaccine, mask or social distancing mandates. Just look at the number people who have stopped wearing masks at the grocery stores and other public venues and it's pretty clear that people are over and done with the restrictions. They just want to live their lives. Get a shot or don't get shot, it doesn't matter because I'll do what's right for me.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

Unvaccinated people fly all the time. You don't need to show the airports a vaccination passport.

You do if you want to travel to certain countries. If you haven't been vaccinated or otherwise immunized against Yellow Fever, there are certain countries you are not allowed to fly to. You must provide - get ready for it - here it comes - a vaccine passport to prove that you have been vaccinated against it.

You still need a negative Covid-19 test in order to return to the USA, even in countries where you're not required to prove you're immune.

In some countries, you can enter without a vaccine, but you'll have to quarantine before you can actually go anywhere once your plane lands. If you show proof of vaccination, they'll waive the quarantine.

There's no reason why a ship shouldn't be allowed to mandate whatever they want for the safety and peace of mind of their passengers. They COULD say "okay - no vaccine proof. But none of you are allowed to leave the ship, and you MUST wear masks whenever you leave your staterooms."

That'd be shooting themselves in the foot though. So instead of going that route, they're saying "show me you're vaccinated, and you can be on this ship, and go wherever we take you, and while you -may- wear a mask if you'd like, we won't require it."

Demanding that ships not require proof of vaccination is no different from the sheriff of Ocala demanding that everyone take their masks OFF when they enter his building. It's stupid, it's pointless, it's counter-productive, it's potentially risky, and it's bad for business.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

I was wrong, it’s 85%.

“ A recent survey of more than 2,000 people from Cruise Critic indicated that vaccine requirements are extremely popular. In the poll, 85% of people said they would take a cruise if people were required to be inoculated against COVID-19 in advance, versus just 7% who said they would not sail if such a policy were in place.”

I think the assumption is that if vaccines are required, then masks and social distancing will not be needed. Much like the signs we are seeing today at many retail stores.

Planning to take a cruise this year? You may not be allowed on board without a COVID-19 vaccination - MarketWatch

Pretty much this. Retail stores have the sign saying "if you are fully vaccinated you don't have to wear a mask here." (or similar wording). Of course, since they can't enforce it, most people are going maskless anyway. And if someone challenges them, they'll just say "I'm fully vaccinated" and the manager just has to take their word for it.

When going to another country, on the other hand, you can't assume that the honor system is going to go over very well. And so - you provide proof of vaccination. I mean, if you were vaccinated, you'll have no problem showing proof of it. The only people who will protest, are the people who aren't vaccinated and want to lie and pretend they are.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Pretty much this. Retail stores have the sign saying "if you are fully vaccinated you don't have to wear a mask here." (or similar wording). Of course, since they can't enforce it, most people are going maskless anyway. And if someone challenges them, they'll just say "I'm fully vaccinated" and the manager just has to take their word for it.

When going to another country, on the other hand, you can't assume that the honor system is going to go over very well. And so - you provide proof of vaccination. I mean, if you were vaccinated, you'll have no problem showing proof of it. The only people who will protest, are the people who aren't vaccinated and want to lie and pretend they are.

Absolutely wrong.

[Boilerman]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I guess we would have to know if the people who took that poll even live in the United States. They could be in other countries for all we know.

You’re missing the point, let me help.

Cruise Critic is a website very popular with the frequent cruiser. I’m sure there are non-US citizens on the site but who cares? These people represent the industry’s most dedicated customers and they are ones who are most likely to be the first revenue passengers in over a year. 85% of these loyal customers want everyone vaccinated. This is obviously the path the cruise lines are pursuing to get cruising again. Remember, the cruise lines did NOT join with DeSantis in the lawsuit challenging the CDC recommendations.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

The regular cruisers that I have talked to do not want vaccine, mask or social distancing mandates.

I agree that most cruisers don’t want to wear masks or socially distance after paying thousands of dollars to go on a cruise. But the survey is clear that cruisers want the peace of mind knowing everyone has been vaccinated.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

. Just look at the number people who have stopped wearing masks at the grocery stores and other public venues and it's pretty clear that people are over and done with the restrictions.

I believe the vast majority of people in The Villages have stopped wearing masks in the stores because that’s the latest recommendation from the CDC. The other news source says that over 85% of seniors in TV have been vaccinated. CDC says we shouldn’t have to wear masks if we’re vaccinated.

DeSantis is looking for a face saving way to give cruises an exemption from his new Florida law. He can’t shut down the cruise industry in Florida as that would be political suicide. I predict he will either back down or the Feds will tell him he has no jurisdiction over the cruise industry.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

You are making assumptions and assertions that simply are not true!

Your HO is not relevant to what I feel is private. You seem to be one of those who would argue that if you have nothing to hide then there is no problem letting the police search your home. I feel the opposite; I will keep the smallest thing private because that is my right in this country!

Tell me again how my vaccination status is a "Public health issue" and is crucial to "maintain a safe environment for their crew and passengers." If the public and their crew and their passengers have taken appropriate precautions then I cannot be a risk to them regardless of my vaccination status. Vaccinated or not I cannot make them sick, their demand to know my status is only to satisfy their curiosity.

Requiring proof of vaccination status has absolutely nothing to do with curiosity. Where in the world did you get that notion? Vaccination status of all those on board a cruise ship is a public health and safety issue to maintain as safe an environment as possible. I don't make those rules, the CDC and the cruise lines make the rules.

Let's face it.....a vaccinated person poses much less risk to those on board a cruise ship than an un-vaccinated person. If you plan to argue that fact, then we can go no further with this discussion.

You say that those on a cruise ship should "take appropriate precautions" regardless of your vaccine status. Are you suggesting that people should have to mask up, social distance and be denied entry to venues on the ship do to capacity limits? If that is what you are suggesting, I am totally against that train of thought. I will not pay for a cruise experience that will limit me in any way and deny me of a great vacation experience. I have been masking up for the entire time we have been asked to do so and I do not plan on having to mask up on vacation now that I am fully vaccinated. If that were the case, I'll not cruise until those restrictions are completely lifted. Land vacations, here I come!

The idea of having to vacation on a cruise ship and be mandated to all the safety protocols is exactly what I want to avoid. There are cruise lines that have agreed to sail with 100% vaccinated crew and passengers, at least for the start up of the cruise industry. Those cruise lines have every right to request proof of vaccine to assure their passengers and crew they are providing a safe environment WITHOUT having to impose all those pesky safety precautions that would have to be implemented if there are un-vaccinated people on board. In fact, ALL cruise lines will be requiring proof of vaccination to all those who are eligible for the vaccine so there is that.

This has nothing to do with "rights" and "freedoms". Get past that. There have always been mandated vaccines for travel and for attending school in person, so requiring proof of vaccination is nothing new in our country. In fact, there are currently colleges that are mandating vaccine proof to attend in person learning as long as alternatives are offered to un-vaccinated students. No vaccination? The students can not attend in person learning. This is just the way things will be for a while until this pandemic is behind us.

Your rights to not have to show proof of vaccine are not hampered in any way. You will have limits however. No proof of vaccine, you don't cruise and that is with all the cruise lines at this point in time unless you have documentation that you are unable to be vaccinated due to medical issues. Even cruise lines that will assure 100% vaccinated passengers will not allow those who have medical issues for vaccination or religious objectors to vaccines. That will certainly change in the future but not until this pandemic is behind us and the protocols for cruising change.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

If the 100% vaccinated cruises make you feel comfortable then you should absolutely go on them.

There are other lines that won't require the passengers to be vaccinated. I can not imagine Disney cruises, for example, having a 100% vaccination requirement.

Cruise lines that allow unvaccinated people on board (kids, people unable to take the vaccine due to medical issues or religious vaccine objectors) will still require proof of vaccination to all those eligible for the vaccine. That is just way things are at this point to get the cruise industry started again.

I don't know of any cruise line that will allow an unlimited amount of of un-vaccinated people on board. If there are, which lines are they?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

O.k. that just shows how arbitrary some of these rules can be. Those cruises will be packed full of unvaccinated kids. Will they all be required to wear masks on the ship?

How much sense does it even make that a 17 1/2 year old teenager can go on the ship unvaccinated but his 18 year friend MUST be vaccinated? If someone under 18 gets sick with the virus will the cruise ship be placed on quarantine or do those rules only apply if someone 18 and over gets sick?

I'm glad that DeSantis isn't buying into that nonsense.

Any cruise ship that has less than 95% passengers and 98% crew on board, must adhere to all safety protocols issued by the CDC. That means ALL passengers on the ship will have to mask up, social distance and there will be capacity limits on board that specific ship. These are the protocols at this point in time. That will change but when those protocols will change is anybody's guess. In fact, protocols have been changing so rapidly with these cruise lines, it is difficult to keep up.

As for DeSantis.....he is going to have to make an exception to his law for cruise lines. They will not be able to safely sail unless they request proof of vaccination.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

DeSantis has plainly said that no passengers are going to have to show proof of vaccination before they cruise from a Florida port. That is a 100%, across the board, fair decision that actually makes a lot of sense.

If you want to be safe from the virus either stay home or get yourself vaccinated. Otherwise you will be taking your chances which is also your choice to make.

DeSantis WILL make an exception for cruise lines. I don't have a crystal ball but a little birdie told me DeSantis is "coming around" and there will be cruise ships home ported in Florida and they most certainly will be requesting proof of vaccination to board their ships.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

The Florida governor most certainly has a say as to what happens in Florida and that includes Florida ports. We'll see how the lawsuit goes.

My guess is the cruise lines will figure out how to work with Florida on this. I'm not seeing Mexico, for instance, demanding vaccination passports.

Why is a conservative governor imposing extremely un-conservative restrictions on businesses? I thought conservative views were LESS government control over business. DeSantis is doing a 180 on those conservative views. He is all for the rights of individuals. I get it but at the same time he is stomping on the rights of businesses to run their businesses as they see fit.

A cruise ship has the reputation of being a "floating petri dish". How can these cruise lines NOT require proof of vaccine in order to safely operate? DeSantis is tying their hands behind their backs for the good of his political posturing and pandering to his anti-vaxxer base. That is all it is and I'm sick of him. And.......to think, I voted for this moron.

Let's see how quickly this post is deleted....... one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight..............

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

DeSantis hasn't forbidden airlines from mandating vaccine passports. The airport itself is in Florida, not international territory. But he hasn't dictated to Qatar Airlines, or Delta, or United that it is not "allowed" to show proof of immunity for its international flights. Why has he singled out cruise ships? He needs to just change his mind and say "y'know what, after further reflection, I realize this was a bad move. I hereby rescind this previous rule."

In other words, he needs to demonstrate that he is a sentient human being.

All DeSantis needs to do is make an exception to his law for cruise lines. This business about declaring once on board a cruise ship is in International waters is a crock of huey and it makes him and his administration look very foolish. We all know International waters begin 12 miles off shore. That is why we pay Florida tax on alcoholic beverages until the ship is in International waters.

Unfortunately, for DeSantis, he has already said very publicly that he will not make an exception to his law for cruise lines. Why on earth not??? What is his problem? His law already makes exceptions for nursing homes and prisons and probably other venues that I'm not mentioning. Does he not realize that once a ship is in the middle of the ocean, people are not able to decide to vacate the premises at will just because an outbreak of Covid just happens to occur? People are, if you will, trapped on board and have no option but to remain on board. Those people have every right to be in a coveted safe environment as safely as can possibly be offered up to them........ just like those in nursing homes and prisons.