[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

You will need to distinguish between the anti-vaxxers who encourage others to not get the vaccine and the pro-privacy folks who may or may not get the vaccine but strongly feel that businesses and the government have no right to inquire.

I don't want to know about your Covid vaccine status any more than I want to know about your measles status, HIV status, or the results of your most recent colonoscopy. There are precautions and if I am taking the precautions that I need to take then your status does not affect me. I encourage you to take the precautions you need to take and respect my privacy.

Pro-privacy? That is just plain down right silly. You will not be asked to disclose your medical records and/or medical history. Vaccine status is not anything that needs to be kept secretive, IMHO. This is a public health issue.

Cruise Lines must maintain a safe environment for their crew and passengers. Requiring proof of vaccine is what it is going to take to provide that safe environment. Anyone not willing to disclose their vaccine status probably has not received any vaccine. That is the reason there is so much balking about having to show proof of vaccination. Those balking, have no proof.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Pro-privacy? That is just plain down right silly. You will not be asked to disclose your medical records and/or medical history. Vaccine status is not anything that needs to be kept secretive, IMHO. This is a public health issue.

Cruise Lines must maintain a safe environment for their crew and passengers. Requiring proof of vaccine is what it is going to take to provide that safe environment. Anyone not willing to disclose their vaccine status probably has not received any vaccine. That is the reason there is so much balking about having to show proof of vaccination. Those balking, have no proof.

You are making assumptions and assertions that simply are not true!

Your HO is not relevant to what I feel is private. You seem to be one of those who would argue that if you have nothing to hide then there is no problem letting the police search your home. I feel the opposite; I will keep the smallest thing private because that is my right in this country!

Tell me again how my vaccination status is a "Public health issue" and is crucial to "maintain a safe environment for their crew and passengers." If the public and their crew and their passengers have taken appropriate precautions then I cannot be a risk to them regardless of my vaccination status. Vaccinated or not I cannot make them sick, their demand to know my status is only to satisfy their curiosity.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I won't be cruising on any ship that requires masking because of un-vaccinated passengers or crew on board. I opt for cruises that offer 100% vaccinated crew and passengers on board. There will be no restrictions on those cruises at this point in time so no masking or distancing required. Celebrity and NCL are offering 100% vaccinated cruises so far. They will be the lines to get our cruise vacation dollars at this point in time.

If the 100% vaccinated cruises make you feel comfortable then you should absolutely go on them.

There are other lines that won't require the passengers to be vaccinated. I can not imagine Disney cruises, for example, having a 100% vaccination requirement.

[Boilerman]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

If the 100% vaccinated cruises make you feel comfortable then you should absolutely go on them.

There are other lines that won't require the passengers to be vaccinated. I can not imagine Disney cruises, for example, having a 100% vaccination requirement.

Disney cruises are starting back up in the UK in September and will require vaccinations for anyone over 18 years old.

[KAM+6]

And as more vaccine becomes available the age requirements will be lowered. Yey

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

Disney cruises are starting back up in the UK in September and will require vaccinations for anyone over 18 years old.

O.k. that just shows how arbitrary some of these rules can be. Those cruises will be packed full of unvaccinated kids. Will they all be required to wear masks on the ship?

How much sense does it even make that a 17 1/2 year old teenager can go on the ship unvaccinated but his 18 year friend MUST be vaccinated? If someone under 18 gets sick with the virus will the cruise ship be placed on quarantine or do those rules only apply if someone 18 and over gets sick?

I'm glad that DeSantis isn't buying into that nonsense.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

O.k. that just shows how arbitrary some of these rules can be. Those cruises will be packed full of unvaccinated kids. Will they all be required to wear masks on the ship?

How much sense does it even make that a 17 1/2 year old teenager can go on the ship unvaccinated but his 18 year friend MUST be vaccinated? If someone under 18 gets sick with the virus will the cruise ship be placed on quarantine or do those rules only apply if someone 18 and over gets sick?

I'm glad that DeSantis isn't buying into that nonsense.

He is not only buying into it, he doubled down on it. He said YOU MAY NOT do this.

Instead of saying "do what you want, it's your business, and your investment, we won't stop you from driving yourself into bankruptcy" he's chosen to pretend to embrace the nanny state mentality by cancelling the culture of corporate caution.

[Villageswimmer]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

I was on a 2 week S.America/Antarctica cruise when COVID hit. No vaccine, and extremely few on the ship got sick. Two weeks later was on a western Caribbean cruise .... nobody got sick, and we were the last cruise in when they shut the port down. No more ships in or out, but nobody was sick on the ship. It is just an over reaction by the CDC to adhere to the CYA policy.

Unless you are privy to the ship’s confidential records, you would have no way to know that what you say is true.

Also, that early in the game, around January 2020, very little was known wrt COVID. We got off a ship at the end of January and a number of passengers we happened to know fell ill just before and shortly after leaving the ship, including us. Unbeknownst to them, they helped spread it.

So, need to throw the B S flag here.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

He is not only buying into it, he doubled down on it. He said YOU MAY NOT do this.

Instead of saying "do what you want, it's your business, and your investment, we won't stop you from driving yourself into bankruptcy" he's chosen to pretend to embrace the nanny state mentality by cancelling the culture of corporate caution.

DeSantis has plainly said that no passengers are going to have to show proof of vaccination before they cruise from a Florida port. That is a 100%, across the board, fair decision that actually makes a lot of sense.

If you want to be safe from the virus either stay home or get yourself vaccinated. Otherwise you will be taking your chances which is also your choice to make.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Villageswimmer

Unless you are privy to the ship’s confidential records, you would have no way to know that what you say is true.

Also, that early in the game, around January 2020, very little was known wrt COVID. We got off a ship at the end of January and a number of passengers we happened to know fell ill just before and shortly after leaving the ship, including us. Unbeknownst to them, they helped spread it.

So, need to throw the B S flag here.

We were on a 5 day Western Caribbean cruise and very literally returned home the day before the ports were closed. The ships that had set sail had to turn right around and come back. I felt so bad for those passengers.

I can tell you that no one on our cruise was worried about COVID, no one in the ports that we spoke to even mentioned COVID. People were having fun, enjoying beautiful weather, entertainment on the ship....and when we got back home after a wonderful trip, suddenly the world shut down. Schools closed, businesses shut down and we had to be on stay at home orders....unless you were out trying to find toilet paper, of course. Grocery store and fast workers were "essential" and went to work. But doctor and dental offices shut down.

The whole thing was absolutely nuts.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

DeSantis has plainly said that no passengers are going to have to show proof of vaccination before they cruise from a Florida port. That is a 100%, across the board, fair decision that actually makes a lot of sense.

If you want to be safe from the virus either stay home or get yourself vaccinated. Otherwise you will be taking your chances which is also your choice to make.

The argument (and the point of the lawsuit) is that the governor doesn't have the *right* to impose this, because cruise ships rules and regs fall under FEDERAL law, not state law.

I'm already vaccinated. I don't worry about myself and Covid-19 at all. I worked at Publix the entire year of the worst of the Pandemic. If I hadn't gotten sick then, I ain't gonna get sick. I vaccinated anyway.

But that's not the point. The point is, the governor doesn't have authority over the cruise lines with regards to cruise line safety policy. The governor is not allowed to FORCE a cruise line to loosen its restrictions. Especially since some of the countries that those cruise lines sail to, DO require proof of vaccination before passengers can debark at THEIR ports.

A cruise line that sails to those ports, would not be ALLOWED to sail from Florida, if they were not ALLOWED to require proof of vaccination or immunity.

The governor of the state of Florida has NO jurisdiction over the countries that these cruise ships sail to. So basically the governor is instructing these cruise lines to either stop sailing to those countries, or stop sailing out of Florida ports.

It doesn't matter if EVERYONE is immune because they breathed Florida air for more than 5 minutes in the last 4 years. What matters is these cruise lines have the right to sail wherever the destination port says they can sail to, and if the destination port requires vaccination proof, then the cruise line has the RIGHT to require it - and the responsibility to require it.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The argument (and the point of the lawsuit) is that the governor doesn't have the *right* to impose this, because cruise ships rules and regs fall under FEDERAL law, not state law.

I'm already vaccinated. I don't worry about myself and Covid-19 at all. I worked at Publix the entire year of the worst of the Pandemic. If I hadn't gotten sick then, I ain't gonna get sick. I vaccinated anyway.

But that's not the point. The point is, the governor doesn't have authority over the cruise lines with regards to cruise line safety policy. The governor is not allowed to FORCE a cruise line to loosen its restrictions. Especially since some of the countries that those cruise lines sail to, DO require proof of vaccination before passengers can debark at THEIR ports.

A cruise line that sails to those ports, would not be ALLOWED to sail from Florida, if they were not ALLOWED to require proof of vaccination or immunity.

The governor of the state of Florida has NO jurisdiction over the countries that these cruise ships sail to. So basically the governor is instructing these cruise lines to either stop sailing to those countries, or stop sailing out of Florida ports.

It doesn't matter if EVERYONE is immune because they breathed Florida air for more than 5 minutes in the last 4 years. What matters is these cruise lines have the right to sail wherever the destination port says they can sail to, and if the destination port requires vaccination proof, then the cruise line has the RIGHT to require it - and the responsibility to require it.

The Florida governor most certainly has a say as to what happens in Florida and that includes Florida ports. We'll see how the lawsuit goes.

My guess is the cruise lines will figure out how to work with Florida on this. I'm not seeing Mexico, for instance, demanding vaccination passports.

[Boilerman]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

The Florida governor most certainly has a say as to what happens in Florida and that includes Florida ports. We'll see how the lawsuit goes.

My guess is the cruise lines will figure out how to work with Florida on this. I'm not seeing Mexico, for instance, demanding vaccination passports.

The reason none of the cruise lines have joined in the DeSantis lawsuit is because they want all their passengers vaccinated. Why? Because 80% of cruisers have said they won’t cruise unless everyone is vaccinated. If the DeSantis lawsuit against the CDC wins and the new Florida law is enforced, the cruise lines will lose 80% of their customers.

I predict that DeSantis will proceed with an exception to the new Florida law. They are discussing the idea that once you’ve stepped on the cruise ship, you’re in international waters and therefore not subject to the new Florida law.

Of course that’s never been true. International waters starts 12 miles from shore. But DeSantis will have to do something to save face and back down.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

The reason none of the cruise lines have joined in the DeSantis lawsuit is because they want all their passengers vaccinated. Why? Because 80% of cruisers have said they won’t cruise unless everyone is vaccinated. If the DeSantis lawsuit against the CDC wins and the new Florida law is enforced, the cruise lines will lose 80% of their customers.

I predict that DeSantis will proceed with an exception to the new Florida law. They are discussing the idea that once you’ve stepped on the cruise ship, you’re in international waters and therefore not subject to the new Florida law.

Of course that’s never been true. International waters starts 12 miles from shore. But DeSantis will have to do something to save face and back down.

DeSantis hasn't forbidden airlines from mandating vaccine passports. The airport itself is in Florida, not international territory. But he hasn't dictated to Qatar Airlines, or Delta, or United that it is not "allowed" to show proof of immunity for its international flights. Why has he singled out cruise ships? He needs to just change his mind and say "y'know what, after further reflection, I realize this was a bad move. I hereby rescind this previous rule."

In other words, he needs to demonstrate that he is a sentient human being.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

DeSantis hasn't forbidden airlines from mandating vaccine passports. The airport itself is in Florida, not international territory. But he hasn't dictated to Qatar Airlines, or Delta, or United that it is not "allowed" to show proof of immunity for its international flights. Why has he singled out cruise ships? He needs to just change his mind and say "y'know what, after further reflection, I realize this was a bad move. I hereby rescind this previous rule."

In other words, he needs to demonstrate that he is a sentient human being.

Unvaccinated people fly all the time. You don't need to show the airports a vaccination passport.