[noslices1]

He is in jail, because he kneeled on George Floyd’s neck for 9 1/2 minutes and lack of oxygen killed him. So, he had drugs in his system and had a bad heart. He would have probably not died that day if he hadn’t been kneeled on.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

My point really is that if George Floyd had done what he was told to do by the arresting police officer(s) he would be alive today. It never once occurred to me that race had anything to do with his death.

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.

Exactly. Those who try and basically say that Floyd deserved it, because of his previous record, are simply trying to justify murder and most reasonable people - know why they are doing it. I believe Chauvin knew he was going to be convicted and is the reason he chose the judge, instead of the jury, for his sentencing. It will be very interesting to see if the judge chooses to try and use some of that same warped/prejudicial thinking, to give Chauvin a minimal sentence - for outright murder. This saga is not over yet.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by tvbound

Exactly. Those who try and basically say that Floyd deserved it, because of his previous record, are simply trying to justify murder and most reasonable people - know why they are doing it. I believe Chauvin knew he was going to be convicted and is the reason he chose the judge, instead of the jury, for his sentencing. It will be very interesting to see if the judge chooses to try and use some of that same warped/prejudicial thinking, to give Chauvin a minimal sentence - for outright murder. This saga is not over yet.

Madam. NO ONE on THIS thread said anything remotely like "Floyd deserved it because of his previous record". NO ONE. Many said he was a known felon. Many suspected he was high on drugs at the time.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think it is entirely possible that Derek Chauvin was an unprincipled person. I feel almost sure that George Floyd was an unprincipled person. I know, I know, we need to give everyone a new chance. George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman, allowing three accomplices in to rob the home. He moved to Minnesota for a "new start". The police were called because he tried to pass a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. The camera's inside the store showed him swaying slightly and appearing to be under the influence of something. He got into a car with several other people who later refused to answer questions and took the fifth amendment as reason. I have to think they were somehow involved with buying or selling drugs, or they could have just been very private and did not want to answer questions. At the time that Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die with neck pressure, that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint. Clearly the other means of restraint used by FOUR MEN were not working. I don't know what I would have done if it had been MY job to arrest him. I believe in my heart that it would have been a dilemma whether or not he was high on drugs, and even if he was a skinny white Episcopalian. Derek Chauvin was there to arrest him and he continued to struggle hard physically. I think this has been made a racist issue above all other considerations. AND maybe it is. I am skeptical.

I am skeptical about whether this issue of "doxing" could be a red herring. I am thinking a lot of scary thoughts. Maybe because I think that people who are generally responsible and ethical worry about being at the mercy of people who are not generally responsible and ethical.

It was 100% a race issue. It is a strained perception to believe otherwise. Some small % of people will NOT believe their "lying eves"! But, there are 2 major ways to prove that it smacked of racism - #1 The jury concluded that it WAS murder. #2 The US Attorney General has started a "patterns and procedures" investigation because he SUSPECTS that the Minneapolis Police Department has SYSTEMIC race problems. He would NOT be doing that if it was not LIKELY that they will find RACISM. Justice and most US citizens demand just that! What I saw was a VERY bad policeman cruelly murder a HELPLESS citizen over $20 that he may not have even known was counterfeit!

If someone is going to talk about Mr. Floyd's past (which was NOT allowed in the trial) then it is also to be talked about that Mr. Chauvin had 17 disciplinary incidents in his record - he was a ticking time bomb. And bad Police are the main takeaway from THAT trial.

[stebooo]

Can you stand up to that kind of investigation of your life. Every cop is now open to suit by anybody that doesn't like something. And there are lots out there. The bad guys will surface.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.

That is pure speculation on your part that Derek Chauvin "made sure he was dead," He might have made sure he ceased to struggle.

Bad guys on drugs can have amazing strength AND cunning Orange Blossom Baby.

video of a large white man on drugs resisting arrest. - Bing video

[stanley]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

Opinion and conjecture. You cannot say that with absolute certainty.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by blueash

This law will only protect law enforcement. If you are a private citizen who misbehaves in a public park, saying yelling at a Black family for playing music too loud.. Your behavior can be recorded and posted on the internet. Or you are shopping at Walmart in your curlers or revealing clothes, there is a whole genre of online posting of those people. No protecting for your face or body from this legislation.

If you are a firefighter, no protection. If you are a paramedic, no protection. What is there about police that they need special protection against being caused emotional distress when their actions are exposed to the public? Don't want to be embarrassed? Don't do something that will reflect badly on you. Simple. This is a radical knee jerk reaction to an evil cop getting caught by the public. We need more of that, not less.

My answer to "what is it about Police".......The Police do have a tough job. But, some of them go into the profession for the wrong reasons - they like the POWER it gives them - they may not be an executive but they can strut around like one and have big attitude and egos. Some like to bully people - especially poor people who may not be able to afford lawyers. Police have an unwritten code of NOT testifying against each other and some water down the incident reports to protect their fellow officers. This occurred dramatically in the Floyd murder case. The Police unions have access to very strong legal services in most cases. So, the ''bad apples" can flaunt the law with impunity. That magnifies their feeling of power!

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

My answer to "what is it about Police".......The Police do have a tough job. But, some of them go into the profession for the wrong reasons - they like the POWER it gives them - they may not be an executive but they can strut around like one and have big attitude and egos. Some like to bully people - especially poor people who may not be able to afford lawyers. Police have an unwritten code of NOT testifying against each other and some water down the incident reports to protect their fellow officers. This occurred dramatically in the Floyd murder case. The Police unions have access to very strong legal services in most cases. So, the ''bad apples" can flaunt the law with impunity. That magnifies their feeling of power!

And you have yet to speak of Mr. Floyd’s culpability.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by blueash

Gracie, I think you try to be fair and even. But you are guilty of both siderism. It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. It does not matter what the other people were doing in the car. Clearly they were using drugs. What mattered in the Chauvin case was that he killed Floyd well after any need to subdue him existed.
The knee : " that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint." You are 100% wrong about that. His own chief of police testified about the technique Chauvin was using and for how long he used it. It was only permitted for seconds not for nine minutes. The trainer for the city testified "That's not what we train" Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference.
If a cop is allowed to punch you once to gain control, that does not mean he can punch you for nine minutes until you stop breathing and your heart stops beating and then claim that throwing a punch is allowed.

I know you are not a pharmacologist but the drug he had in his system are sedatives not agitators. Fentanyl will not make you violent. He was not a danger to Chauvin because of the drugs he took. He was not resisting once he was on the ground.

One of the other officers checked Floyd for a pulse several minutes into the time Chauvin was on his neck. The other officer reported that there was no pulse. What did Chauvin do? He never moved. He stayed on the neck of Floyd even when a fellow office told him the man had no pulse. Did he release his pressure. No, Did he start CPR, no. Instead he continued to apply neck pressure in a way NOT approved by the Minneapolis Police. And he did not move until the EMT's ordered him to move.

Gracie, your inability to see Mr Floyd as a human being is sad to me because I'd expect you to know that even people with problems deserve respect if not love.

This sentence tells me you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you



He did not "allow" him to die. He murdered him.

And now the State of Oklahoma is passing a law to make it easier for the next Chauvin to get away with murder.

You were being very gentle and gentlemanly in your reply. And your reply went point by point and was informative. Very classy. I tried to make that same reply but was not close to the accuracy and sophistication that yours was. This forum is very LUCKY to have someone with your mind and demeanor!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by bob47

I just read a book by John Grisham, "The Innocent Man". Written in 2006, it is his first non-fiction novel, based on criminal cases in Oklahoma in the 1980s. It is claimed to be meticulously researched.

It gives some insight into how a few, not totally upstanding citizens, were abused by a corrupt criminal justice system. Perhaps unfair treatment by the criminal justice system in Oklahoma is not so uncommon.

I would NOT like to live in Oklahoma.

[Aces4]

I would be extremely impressed and confident if all those determining how Mr. Floyd was treated would encourage the African American inner cities population to move to The Villages and be welcomed.

Offer financial support to them, hire them and include them in your activities. Do not increase but rather decrease the police population and help them get out of their current status.

Then I would think this wasn’t all just lip service but a true attempt to help these individuals.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Sir/Madam. It is apparent that YOU are part of a large demographic that seems to walk in lock-step as well. Watch your thinking. It is bigoted to think of groups as all thinking alike. For instance;.... Many people think of a group that does not get vaccinated against Covid-19. Sumter county who is largely from that group .... has the highest vaccination percentage of all of the counties in Florida.

That rambles together at least 2 divergent situations.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

"No, all video should not be public. I would support that the object of the video should be able to immediately get access to the video, not only once the police have reviewed it and deemed it appropriate."
__________________ I think it would be informative if video of any and all arrest situation were made public. clearly a public matter with the public having a right to know

Better to have volunteers ride in squad cars with the Police. They could be college students working on a degree in law or justice or criminology.