[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by paulandjean

Thank You for private schools.Seems all of these problems stem from public schools.

Informative article in Miami Herald on Charter Schools.
Financial problems close three charter schools in Broward - Schools - MiamiHerald.com

"Nationally, about 12 percent of charter schools opened in the last 20 years have closed, but in Florida, that closure rate is double, according to state figures. Florida’s XXXXXXXXXX-controlled Legislature has strongly encouraged charter school growth — even allocating school construction dollars exclusively to charters. But critics of charter schools complain the state isn’t doing enough oversight"

[paulandjean]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Informative article in Miami Herald on Charter Schools.
Financial problems close three charter schools in Broward - Schools - MiamiHerald.com

"Nationally, about 12 percent of charter schools opened in the last 20 years have closed, but in Florida, that closure rate is double, according to state figures. Florida’s XXXXXXXXXX-controlled Legislature has strongly encouraged charter school growth — even allocating school construction dollars exclusively to charters. But critics of charter schools complain the state isn’t doing enough oversight"

I was there when the first Charter Schools were started. I said then this is a very very bad idea.It is no surprse to me.

[paulandjean]

Surprise

[CycleChic]

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

[skyc6]

Bullying can go on everywhere, but the most important part of the bullying equation is not the bully or the victim. It is teaching the "bystanders" what to do. If a 5 or 6 of them call the bully out and calmly, without threatening, tell the bully that what he/she is doing is wrong, makes them look foolish, or humorously sort of gently laugh the bully out of the room, it can be very powerful. Sometimes these clubs can be advocates for any student who needs help in handling difficult situations, and teaches tolerance for all differences.
A LGBT club is not involved with promoting their situations, but rather it helps to teach them how to function in a world where they are in the minority. It is a club open to anyone, and sometimes who are not LGBT will join and become an advocate for students wh need help.
There is also a MS/HS organization call Natural Helpers that many schools have and this type of club can be a great benefit to students.
To say only curriculum clubs should be allowed doesn't recognize that we need to educate the whole child, and that includes the emotional, social, intellectual, and physical. All those areas are necessary to function in our society as young adults.

[rubicon]

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by rubicon

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

I see it totally opposite. I grew up being taught to love thy neighbor and do unto others regardless of their race, sexual orientation/ gender etc. I was never under the belief that everything is a conspiracy and only meant to harm me. After 65 years I now believe that is definitely TRUE. I am so thankful I see the glass half full rather than half empty.

[paulandjean]

Originally Posted by CycleChic

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

Not sure if I agree with that first sentence.

[CarolSells]

Originally Posted by rubicon

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

Thank you! I've been waiting all-thread long for someone to say this! Seems to me that many schools have their plates full just trying to teach the three R's today! And there is so much more to teach today! My granddaughter is in Kindergarten. Her classroom is all about computers and technology and learning. (She happens to be reading on a 3rd grade level!)

I believe that schools should be allowed to discipline students but the issue of bullying is a parenting problem!

Hold these "support" groups off campus!

[skyc6]

[QUOTE=ilovetv;628349]When I read the first article linked (Daily Commercial), I couldn't help but think there was more to the story. Something is missing from what's being reported. I looked around and googled other articles on the topic. One sentence here, from this article, has a key point:



I think "curriculum-based" is at the heart of the matter. To stereotype the entire school board, administration and district parents as a bunch of redneck haters, homophobes, and bigots, just because the school administration cannot be all things to all people....is stereotyping and bigotry too.

One problem is that when a club forms at school, there has to be a faculty advisor(s) for the club. The school district also assumes liability for all its clubs, students, and faculty while they're there and involved in school activities.

So. Let's say that a good and willing faculty advisor for the gay-straight alliance club would be a teacher who is gay or lesbian, because they have walked in the shoes of these students. Now consider that for decades, as an example, the U.S. military had a policy of "Don't ask, don't tell", that worked reasonably well. A lot of us don't really care to know what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. Changing this policy in the military became congressional-level demonstrations, protests, lobbying, etc. for years.

Why should the public schools get involved in such an emotional, controversial, extra-curricular club, when really, I believe this problem is due to the schools having their hands tied in recent decades when it comes to seriously and effectively disciplining bullies that are so evil they'd slash a girl's face!!!!

When school behavior gets so far out of control that you have students openly, physically abused for being different, this tells me that either the principal and assistants are absolutely useless, and/or their hands are tied legally against their being able to strongly discipline and boot out these awful perpetrators who are also enabled by their boorish parents. I have taught under school principals that are absolutely useless and just play the P.R. game, and I've also seen some of the best principals you could ever find have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to disciplining abusive students.

Also....I'm pretty sure there are lots of teachers who are homosexual, and I'm certain that my kids have had gay teachers.......but why does anybody in a public school need to KNOW that???? Quite a few times, while my kids were in high school and after I'd met their teachers and got to know them better in parent-teacher conferences, I'd ask my kids, "Is Mr. or Ms. So and So gay? I sense that they are because of this or that." Routinely their answer was, "I dunno.....who cares?" And I was glad they didn't care about that because that person is there to be a teacher, not a sexual-identity role model, nor a counseling psychologist which, by the way requires masters' and PhD degrees, clinical hours, licensure and continuing education!!!!

I think the real problem this school board is trying to deal with is a) not having the legal authority nor standing to strongly, finally discipline and nip in the bud these bullies and get them out if they don't shape up; and b) the board and administrators know their limitations and that they cannot be all things to all people.

I think a club like this belongs in the private sector of the community, in for example a community center like Boys & Girls Club or church youth groups, etc. if it's in line with their beliefs and they are prone to address that problem.

Besides that, any parent of one of the abused students can form a club for the victims and friends to meet at their house or wherever. I think the schools already have enough problems of their own without getting into this.[/QUOTe

The suggestion that bullies can be "gotten out if they don't shape up" is very misleading. Our laws guarantee an education, even mandate an education, and until laws are broken, the bully will be in school There may be suspensions, etc., but you cannot expel a student for being a bully.

It is also not realistic to say that all parents must provide sex education for their children. Some parents are absent, have left their families, are drug addicts, pedophiles, in prison, or are crackheads.

[CycleChic]

Originally Posted by paulandjean

Not sure if I agree with that first sentence.

I know for a FACT of two private schools located in Lake County, both are based out of churches, that have students enrolled in classes that have been "removed" from Lake County Schools due to severe behavioral problems. The almightly dollar can buy a misbehaving child a spot anywhere.

I also know a woman who works in a Christian preschool in Lake County. She has a student that has bitten her on the arms and hit her so hard it has bruised her. The student still remains in her class because the parents "are large contributors" to the church. Other students in that same preschool have been asked to leave for far less offenses.

This is what I call monetary bullying....the parent with the most money wins.

And I agree with someone's statement earlier that it begins at home...parents don't raise their children with any morals or values anymore. They just ship them off to school and expect others to do it for them.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by rubicon

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

I 100% agree. Just what is it that is in the teacher's training that qulifies them to teach children in their care about sex??? Absolutely nothing other than their own particular leaning which is totally and completely unacceptable. They, the teachers, are challenged enough as it is to teach the basic curriculum.

Sex education belongs at home....like it or not. School administrators at any level....ANY LEVEL.....are not qulified. And now the outlook of the 21st century that it is OK for anything goes has more than complicated the birds and the bees concept....eh??!!??

If I had a kid in school they would be opted out of sex education....thank GOD I am way past having kids in school anymore. Today's attitudes would not want me in their PTA meetings!!!!!

btk

[paulandjean]

Originally Posted by CycleChic

I know for a FACT of two private schools located in Lake County, both are based out of churches, that have students enrolled in classes that have been "removed" from Lake County Schools due to severe behavioral problems. The almightly dollar can buy a misbehaving child a spot anywhere.

I also know a woman who works in a Christian preschool in Lake County. She has a student that has bitten her on the arms and hit her so hard it has bruised her. The student still remains in her class because the parents "are large contributors" to the church. Other students in that same preschool have been asked to leave for far less offenses.

This is what I call monetary bullying....the parent with the most money wins.

And I agree with someone's statement earlier that it begins at home...parents don't raise their children with any morals or values anymore. They just ship them off to school and expect others to do it for them.

yes of course, I retired from a private school. We would many many times take students expelled from public schools. We would have better discipline of that student from a public school.More of a family atmosphere in a private school. Remember one student expelled from inner-city school for carrying a gun. We took him in our small inner-city private and he did excellent. Something about those IHM nuns that will do it to you.

[CycleChic]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I 100% agree. Just what is it that is in the teacher's training that qulifies them to teach children in their care about sex??? Absolutely nothing other than their own particular leaning which is totally and completely unacceptable. They, the teachers, are challenged enough as it is to teach the basic curriculum.

Sex education belongs at home....like it or not. School administrators at any level....ANY LEVEL.....are not qulified. And now the outlook of the 21st century that it is OK for anything goes has more than complicated the birds and the bees concept....eh??!!??

If I had a kid in school they would be opted out of sex education....thank GOD I am way past having kids in school anymore. Today's attitudes would not want me in their PTA meetings!!!!!

btk

I agree with you.

When I had children in school, I opted out of sex ed for both of my children. I felt this was a subject I wanted to discuss with my children, not a teacher in a classroom with a whole class waiting to hear what questions someone might ask. I also did not agree that in elementary school they were wanting to discuss "self gratification" with children. The belief behind this was that if children could "learn" how to do this, they wouldn't try to have intercourse. Really???? I often wondered just how much detail they went into regarding this.

What I did find interesting was the note they sent home was to be signed ONLY if you did NOT want your child to participate. To me, this is backwards. What if the note never made it home? Did the school just assume that your child has permission?

[Bogie Shooter]

Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................