[RayinPenn]

It is intern season at our firm and we have three in our department -I have one working on a project for me. (She is awesome). One of the two others and I got to chatting and he told me he will have $200k of student loan debt when he graduates...when he said it I tried to not show the shock I felt. The University he attends is ranked in the top ten of business schools in the country...

Later a bunch of my twenty something colleagues were having afternoon coffee when the subject came up and the themes were:
1. Some had debt but nothing like our intern
2. It just wasn't worth it and it will take years to pay off... The 'nut' will be over 2500. A month.
3. It is a relationship killer - girls they have dated with huge debts and how they wrote them off when they found out...
4. An 18 year old has no sense of the financial impact of their college choice decisions.

The thought of that debt has me sitting here in disbelief...

[justjim]

The problem is many don't pay back their loans. Guess who is stuck with the debt? I read an article on this subject a few months ago and the reporter in her research found "doctors" making $500,000 a year that said they had no intention of paying off their loans.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by justjim

The problem is many don't pay back their loans. Guess who is stuck with the debt? I read an article on this subject a few months ago and the reporter in her research found "doctors" making $500,000 a year that said they had no intention of paying off their loans.

OH that OUCHES my fiscally conservative self. OH MY...and three Boy Howdies.

We paid for our children and grandchildren's college education, with two caveats. They kept the good grades up and they educated themselves toward a paying job. Youngest got a full ride but it didn't cover food etc. Funny how THAT works.

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by RayinPenn

It is intern season at our firm and we have three in our department -I have one working on a project for me. (She is awesome). One of the two others and I got to chatting and he told me he will have $200k of student loan debt when he graduates...when he said it I tried to not show the shock I felt. The University he attends is ranked in the top ten of business schools in the country...

Later a bunch of my twenty something colleagues were having afternoon coffee when the subject came up and the themes were:
1. Some had debt but nothing like our intern
2. It just wasn't worth it and it will take years to pay off... The 'nut' will be over 2500. A month.
3. It is a relationship killer - girls they have dated with huge debts and how they wrote them off when they found out...
4. An 18 year old has no sense of the financial impact of their college choice decisions.

The thought of that debt has me sitting here in disbelief...

It makes you wonder about the caliber of the counseling at our high schools, not to mention questioning the input of the parents who, quite often, have guaranteed the loans.

All too many Bachelors Degrees are simply a "check in a box" on a job application. Most graduates are not qualified to manage a sunglass kiosk at the mall. However, they have not been forewarned. In this market, a degree without on the job experience (within their major's field) is nearly worthless.

Parents need to get more involved. If they start really delving into the curriculum and the associated costs, maybe they could drive a serious restructuring of universities. Rising tuition has far outpaced inflation for years, yet the caliber of education has fallen.

[njbchbum]

Don't even get me started with the current and proposed student loan forgiveness programs that exist and might exist in the near future! If you find your blood pressure dropping, just do a bing search on 'student loan forgiveness' and your blood pressure will correct itself in short order!

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

It makes you wonder about the caliber of the counseling at our high schools, not to mention questioning the input of the parents who, quite often, have guaranteed the loans.

All too many Bachelors Degrees are simply a "check in a box" on a job application. Most graduates are not qualified to manage a sunglass kiosk at the mall. However, they have not been forewarned. In this market, a degree without on the job experience (within their major's field) is nearly worthless.

Parents need to get more involved. If they start really delving into the curriculum and the associated costs, maybe they could drive a serious restructuring of universities. Rising tuition has far outpaced inflation for years, yet the caliber of education has fallen.

As far as I can see - the only college degree program that guarantees a return on any investment is the one that leads to a degree to become a funeral director!

Just read the posts on TOTV from people looking for assistance - most of them for someone in one of the trades or for a landscaper or handi-person...no degree necessary for those positions!

My brilliant niece is entering her senior year in h.s. Upon graduation she will take her licensing exams for cosmetology and nail tech; which career she plans to use while attending the univ of south carolina to study for a future as a dental hygienist! She figures that working part-time while going to college full-time will help to avoid those college loans. And in the end she will have licensure in two careers that are each portable in nature as well as flexible when it comes to working if/when she marries and becomes a mother!

Tell me she did not receive good advice from her parents and her favorite great-aunt!!!!

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by RayinPenn

It is intern season at our firm and we have three in our department -I have one working on a project for me. (She is awesome). One of the two others and I got to chatting and he told me he will have $200k of student loan debt when he graduates...when he said it I tried to not show the shock I felt. The University he attends is ranked in the top ten of business schools in the country...

Later a bunch of my twenty something colleagues were having afternoon coffee when the subject came up and the themes were:
1. Some had debt but nothing like our intern
2. It just wasn't worth it and it will take years to pay off... The 'nut' will be over 2500. A month.
3. It is a relationship killer - girls they have dated with huge debts and how they wrote them off when they found out...
4. An 18 year old has no sense of the financial impact of their college choice decisions.

The thought of that debt has me sitting here in disbelief...

Ray - thanks for starting this post for discussion, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. I am the grandmother of a young man whose parents "coerced" him into attending Ohio State "because it would look good on a resume"! He graduated with a major and a minor and cannot find a job. He is left with 20 years of debt at $400 per month, and they co-signed!!!!

Before this young man graduated from high school he was working with a high end Landscaper who specialized in commercial landscaping. He was good at it and loved it, but it was considered an "after school job" by his parents who did not want him to spend his life groveling in the dirt to make a living. He had become very interested in organics, soil improvements, organic fertilizers and was really excited about the future of organics in farming. Had he stuck with it, he would have probably owned his own company by now instead of being saddled with gazzillions of debt. He worked while in college with a construction company - again he loved it, he really liked making over old homes - again, not good enough for a real job. Grrrrrrr ..........

Since the return of so many of our military with missing arms, legs and goodness only knows what, it would seem to me that the medical field, artificial intelligence, etc. etc. gives the best chance for a decent career!

But, I'm only the "ancient" grandmother and I know nothing..............

[shcisamax]

The entire higher education system is a mess. Tuitions have skyrocketed and an average private college is $50 K and more. Even the public universities are relatively expensive now. Not every kid should be in college yet high schools are now geared to push everyone towards college. As was mentioned, too many come out with no ability to secure a higher paid position. Every piece of the college experience is based upon $ whether it is College Board administering the SATs and ACTs or the admission fees, the pushing for summer programs, the government loans, the private bank loans and yadi yah. The government loans can't be renegotiated and are way higher than a mortgage. Kids are going to be paying back loans when they normally would be looking to purchase their first home. The housing market will likely suffer in the coming years. I am actually surprised that someone said they know a doctor who has said he isn't going to repay his loans. I thought there was no way out of them other than official forgiveness for teachers. We didn't take loans for the kids because it just seemed financially insane. Better to make the investment than have your kids struggle for the majority of their adult life. But it really shouldn't be such a struggle. I find it unconscionable the government through their loan program capitalizes not only on the education of our future population but straps the kids like indentured servants for years of their lives.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by justjim

The problem is many don't pay back their loans. Guess who is stuck with the debt? I read an article on this subject a few months ago and the reporter in her research found "doctors" making $500,000 a year that said they had no intention of paying off their loans.

It just goes to show you that abuse of "the system" is in all walks of life. From the hedge fund managers embracing the 1% life to the single mother trying to feed her children. Some are trying to scratch out a life while others are trying to scratch out a fortune. Just a matter of the number of "zeros".

[Taltarzac725]

I am still paying off my law student loans from the University of Minnesota. It was my 25th re-union a few months ago. Of course, I have a very unique story and I did use the work I did fighting for access to practical information for survivors/victims of crimes in all of the US states as well as abroad from 1992 through 2000 to get my MA in Librarianship and Information Management loans forgiven back around 2000. I went to the University of Denver Graduate School of Librarianship and Information Management and received my MA in May, 1984. The Western Interstate Commission on Higher Education offered a Stipend Grant that they would pay for a majority of the tuition (out of state fees waived for WICHE people) of people in fields that did not have schools accredited in certain areas of study. Nevada had no professional librarianship program. So, I signed a contract to pay back WICHE by working as a librarian in Nevada for a set number of years. I tried to get employment in Nevada as a Librarian but failed but I did pursue my survivors/victims of crimes project (224 613) which did affect the state of Nevada as I was advocating for victims/survivors rights to practical information in libraries of all kinds in EVERY US state as well as in various US territories. Of course, I sent WICHE a lot of letters, documents, e-mails backing up my claims to doing meaningful work. (unpaid though).

Too bad I cannot think of a way to apply such PRO BONO work (really at me and my family's expense) to my law school student loans.

I worked my way through various schools for my two BAs from the University of Nevada, Reno (1980,1981); Spanish at the College of San Mateo in San Mateo, CA (1985?-1986?); MA from the University of Denver Graduate School of Librarianship and Information Management (Class of 1984) as well as from the University of Minnesota Law School. (Class of 1989). I could not cover all the expenses for all this education. I also took Russian, Reading German, Reading Italian, Japanese, Chinese, and Reading Dutch to help as a Cataloger of Foreign Materials at the University of Minnesota Law School Library. I had to drop some of these Foreign Language classes as they were a little too much work right after graduating from Law School in 1989. I did succeed with Reading Dutch and Reading German but failed the Reading Italian and dropped out of the other language classes.

If you want to know the hurdles, tactics, etc. I used in the survivors/victims of crimes project I talk quite a lot about them on TOTV. And, I mentioned them with documents to support my claims while I was posting on FINDLAW's message boards from July 2001 or so through about March 2006. I also sent some of these documents back around March 13, 2014-- but only really a small selection-- to the ObamaCare people because obviously if I am still paying off Law Student Loans from 25 years ago, I cannot afford medical insurance.

[Topspinmo]

For some that's on the low side. We also paid for our sons college education both working to do it and was lucky he was responsible when getting additional loans. He paid his off within three years after college. He didn't get student loans for new SUV's, spring break (every other month, or take the summer off to tour Europe), or pay for nice apartment. So many are irresponsible use the loans for everything but education needs . Most have no intension of paying it back. They expect mommy, daddy or the government to bail them out. Most are Politically brain washed anyway after college.

[DDoug]

Used to be if you didnt pay your student loan it came off your SS before you would collect any.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

It just goes to show you that abuse of "the system" is in all walks of life. From the hedge fund managers embracing the 1% life to the single mother trying to feed her children. Some are trying to scratch out a life while others are trying to scratch out a fortune. Just a matter of the number of "zeros".

Yep and add in all those folks with tattoos paid for by their welfare checks and doing drugs while on the dole. I think it's all how you look at it.

At least all the successful business people who some folks are always maligning, they are providing jobs and paying SOME income tax.

You know, not all successful and wealthy business people are slimy, just as not all poor people are slimy. There are MANY decent, ethical, hard working and good people in both groups.


Starting out with very little, I have learned it means more, makes you realize what it means to other people too, when you make it on your own. There are many, many, many people in this world who need and deserve welfare, and many, many, many who do not need, nor deserve welfare. SOMETHING needs to change.


Did I JUST write an hour ago that I am old enough to know that you will NEVER change ANYONE's views on politics and religion???? Did I??????

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Yep and add in all those folks with tattoos paid for by their welfare checks and doing drugs while on the dole. I think it's all how you look at it.

At least all the successful business people who some folks are always maligning, they are providing jobs and paying SOME income tax.

You know, not all successful and wealthy business people are slimy, just as not all poor people are slimy. There are MANY decent, ethical, hard working and good people in both groups.


Starting out with very little, I have learned it means more, makes you realize what it means to other people too, when you make it on your own. There are many, many, many people in this world who need and deserve welfare, and many, many, many who do not need, nor deserve welfare. SOMETHING needs to change.


Did I JUST write an hour ago that I am old enough to know that you will NEVER change ANYONE's views on politics and religion???? Did I??????

You are right that no economic class has a monopoly on abuse of the system. Those that have good fortune to have the means to have a positive affect on society are to be commended (Gates , Buffet et al). Those that take 2% and 20 % and pay a long term capital gains rate on $300M/yr are abusive of the system. WE all have our prejudices and think we are right about our opinions. As long as we are happy in our own skin and can look in the mirror with a straight face. Some people with tattoos are very good citizens and some in a business suit are crooks. One has to look in their heart to see the real person!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A few years ago I had a position with a golf retailer. We had a kid who ran the shoe department. When I say ran the department, he basically kept it clean, stocked the shelves and help customers. H had pretty fair knowledge of golf shoes.
he had graduated college about a year before I knew him and this was the only job he could find. He has a two hour rise to work each way and I believe that he was paid about $9.00 an hour plus a few commissions. He was always complaining that he couldn't find a job in his field of study which was sports journalism.
One day he told me that he had over $80,000 in college loans that he was paying off. I asked him why he didn't get a job where he could make more money so he could get his loans paid off sooner. He said that he applied every where but none of the radio or television stations were hiring broadcasters for major league sports and he didn't want to take something that was not in his field. I told him that I knew a guy in the area close to his home that had a construction business. He was hiring unskilled laborers at $25.00 per hour. His response was, "I'm not going to do construction. I'm a college graduate".