[villagegolfer]

I was going to post this in the Golf Cart forum but I thought more people would see this good news here in General Forum.

Lithium Silicon batteries 8 times more energy dense.

I figure the article which pertains to electric cars would also pertain the golf carts.

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/008305.html

[BarryDC]

Lithium ion batteries are more expensive than the regular batteries used in golf carts, but they have a lot of advantages. They weight half as much, charge faster, hold their charge longer, and don't leak which can ruin a garage floor. Does anybody know if somebody in TV sells them?

[jimbo2012]

U can get them, but the cost is about $1700

[rubicon]

It was my understanding that these batteries were being tested by some golf cart mfgs. it was also my understanding that they worked well with solar panels.?????????????????????????? I didn't realize they were available for sale. if so I might well invest in six.

[jimbo2012]

It wouldn't be six actually more like 32 small ones totaling the 48volts, it would take some minor re-wiring and bracket fabrication, no big deal.

I know a company that should have them in TV later this year, want to be the first?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

It wouldn't be six actually more like 32 small ones totaling the 48volts, it would take some minor re-wiring and bracket fabrication, no big deal.

I know a company that should have them in TV later this year, want to be the first?

Sounds like the way to go when my cart needs new batteries. Problem is that the batteries ay cost more than my cart is worth.

[jimbo2012]

So what if the cart craps out move the batteries to another cart.

Just like solar panels

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

So what if the cart craps out move the batteries to another cart.

Just like solar panels

Good point. From what I can tell, the lithium ion batteries should get you more range and last a lot longer. They cost about twice as much as standard batteries. Do you know approximately how much more mileage and how much longer they'll last?

[kbace6]

I do not think Lithium Silicon batteries are the way to go. This particular Lithium Chemistry has not been proven for prime time yet. LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is a proven Lithium chemistry. Lithium Cobalt and Lithium Manganese are proven and more energy dense, but much are more unstable.(fires) (IE. Dell laptops and certain cell phones) LiFePo4 is less energy dense than those other 2 lithium chemistries but much, much more stable and with a much longer cycle life. (3000-5000 charge cycles when charged and maintained properly) Some lithium chemistries and most all lead are around 300 cycles.

The problem is there are still so many people out there (using/installing these batteries) who do not know enough about this particular chemistry and its characteristics. These individuals apply their knowledge of lead acid batteries and it just does not work. They are NOT equal and should under no circustances be treated in the same way as lead.

If you delve into this arena, here are a few things to remember.

1. You must properly bottom balance the cells each individually first.
2. You will need a new charger with the appropriate charge curve.
3. Never over charge the cells.
4. Never over discharge the cells.
5. Do not use a volt meter as it is a bad indication of your pack's State of Charge.

I hope this helps.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

It wouldn't be six actually more like 32 small ones totaling the 48volts, it would take some minor re-wiring and bracket fabrication, no big deal.

I know a company that should have them in TV later this year, want to be the first?

I would like to learn more about the claims, cost, etc

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Good point. From what I can tell, the lithium ion batteries should get you more range and last a lot longer. They cost about twice as much as standard batteries. Do you know approximately how much more mileage and how much longer they'll last?

No one has tested them to my knowledge, so if I decide to experiment .... who knows

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Good point. From what I can tell, the lithium ion batteries should get you more range and last a lot longer. They cost about twice as much as standard batteries. Do you know approximately how much more mileage and how much longer they'll last?

LiFePo4 batteries have 3 times more energy density than a run of the mill lead acid battery and they are 1/6th the weight for the same capacity. So for a standard T-105 lead acid Trojan 6-volt at 62lbs the equivalent LiFePo4 cell weighs 8.9lbs. So for a 48v cart that is 500lbs of lead. For LiFePo4 that is only 67lbs. Weight = Range

The difference for a new Club Car is about 20 extra miles of range. A big difference in range, but the life cycle difference is even larger. Lead is around 300 charge cycles and LiFePo4 cells are over 3000 charge cycles. If you tend to go through batteries once every 2 or 3 years, that's about 20-25 years for these LiFePo4 cells with the same usage.

Here is the other advantage of LiFePo4 cells. If you wanted to and did not care about the weight or the $$$, you can add a lot more larger cells and increase your range to over 100 miles.

When you factor in the life cycle difference the LiFePo4 cell is more economical. It's all about the upfront costs.

If I can be of help to someone who wants to outfit their cart with Lithium Iron Phosphate cells, please PM me.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by kbace6

LiFePo4 batteries have 3 times more energy density than a run of the mill lead acid battery and they are 1/6th the weight for the same capacity. So for a standard T-105 lead acid Trojan 6-volt at 62lbs the equivalent LiFePo4 cell weighs 8.9lbs. So for a 48v cart that is 500lbs of lead. For LiFePo4 that is only 67lbs. Weight = Range

6x 62 = 500???? I don't think so

The difference for a new Club Car is about 20 extra miles of range. A big difference in range, but the life cycle difference is even larger. Lead is around 300 charge cycles and LiFePo4 cells are over 3000 charge cycles. If you tend to go through batteries once every 2 or 3 years, that's about 20-25 years for these LiFePo4 cells with the same usage.

what are those figures based upon?

20-25 years? how long have they even been on the market?

Here is the other advantage of LiFePo4 cells. If you wanted to and did not care about the weight or the $$$, you can add a lot more larger cells and increase your range to over 100 miles.

Again based on what, where R U getting these figures from?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

6x 62 = 500???? I don't think so

I think he's talking about 8 six volt batteries.

8x62=496

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I think he's talking about 8 six volt batteries.

8x62=496

Yes, my apologies on the original math. Yes 8x62.