[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

How is it that a small subset of half the country believes this^ while the other half the country sees it for what it is (besides too much MSNBC)? America is the greatest country on earth because of the systems that have allowed innovation to prosper. True Socialism (Commie-Lite) and Communism have failed in every attempt to implement it, and has resulted in the death of millions of people. No thanks, I'll take evil Capitalism any day, even if it is imperfect. If it is so bad, why is the rest of the world trying to move here?

The rest of the world is NOT trying to move here. Not Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Australia, Canada and many other countries. Just the poor South American countries want to come here. The US is great for many things, but it should look to other counties to improve, but it is too arrogant to do that. With our current tax system favoring the upper 10% most wealthy, we are in dire danger of moving rapidly toward a Dictatorship. Most Americans won't like that and it will be difficult to return to freedom.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bwanajim

Sorry, I was a small business owner of one of the largest dry cleaners in Fort Lauderdale. I also graduated with a degree in accounting so I know my math. I remember when I first started CDs were paying 15% at the bank. I'm getting roughly $2400 a month but after Medicare deduction and supplemental insurance is about 2000 a month. Are you really telling me I could not have earned more than $24,000 a year if I've made sound investments in the last 50 years? When I first got in the market, I believe it was 600 points. Tell me anything the government has done that has been good about not blowing money.??

That last question is remarkably EASY to answer. Were it NOT for the US government putting together STRONG armed devices, we would all be speaking German and Japanese. The US taxpayer pays for our excellent military !!!

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bwanajim

I did not graduate college nor own a dry cleaners at the age of 16. Got out of college when I was 22 and took over my dad's small dry cleaning business. Over the course of 40 years I built it up to 11 people, but I worked my ass off six days a week. I still had to deduct Social Security from my own paycheck and contribute to all my employees SS also.
I'm just saying if I did not have to contribute, (I believe it was 7.65%) out of my paycheck I could've taken that money and made a hell of a lot more investing in the market.
And of course, my business had to match mine and all my other employees 7.65% contribution.

A lot of high income workers say the same thing. If they could invest the money themselves, they would do better. That is true, but it would be the end of the Social Security system because the high income workers would leave and there would be almost no money left to pay promised benefits to the low income workers. Social Security is a wealth transfer system that pays a high percentage of benefits to low income workers and a low percentage to high income workers. Read the benefit calculation formulas and do the math. I have.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

It might very well be that the US offered the promise of getting ahead. Something that is becoming less and less achievable.

It probably was due to the social programs put in place to protect the most vulnerable. Something that is now being cut/reduced/pulled back.

It could be because the overall quality of life in the US was clearly better than where they came from. Something that is not as clear any more.

It certainly wasn't because the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. Something that is becoming more and more the case.

Did this shift only take place in the last year and a half? Because it sure seemed like thousands of people were streaming across the border just 2 years ago.

-The US is still the most likely place in the world to get ahead.

-The social programs here are still better than almost anywhere else.

-The quality of life is certainly better than anywhere else.

-Income inequality is a problem everywhere. In many (most?) places it is worse than here.

I am saddened by people who think the US is a terrible place. No one said it was perfect.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Policy is dictated in part by lobbyists, who pay millions to politicians and campaigns and PACs, in exchange for policy votes going their way. It's also dictated by the fact that ours is a Capitalistic society, and by the fact that a Democratic Socialist environment is designed to sustain capitalism in a healthy way, but the politicians have weaponized the term and insist that it's the same thing as Socialism (which it is absolutely not), and that Socialism is the same thing as Communism (which it absolutely is not). And so, our country rejects the Democratic Socialism that might improve us - by weaponizing the term banking on American ignorance to embrace a class system where the wealthy pay the lowest percentage of their income, the middle class pay the highest percentage, the poor pay nothing - but live in shacks and are given no opportunity to rise above their rags.

Another factor that hurts the US is that we don't limit the amount that rich people can put into political campaigns. (I believe that was a change in the law. I don't know what year?) People think that elections are one person - one vote, but really it is one RICH person paying for many political advertisements distorting the truth and effecting probably 10 voters. We also have way more TV channels BENDING the TRUTH after 1980.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I guess my concern comes from the love I have for this country and my past economics demographics and policy (as well as other stuff) background. We are proud that the US is number one in so many ways but also:

Highest Burden & Suicide Rates: A 2023 survey showed the U.S. has the highest burden of mental health needs and the highest suicide rate among 11 high-income nations.

And this hurts. And it relates to poor policy making, in my opinion. And this can be changed.

The US is number 26 in Quality of Life in the world. I wish that more people would know that and remember that statistic. Don't believe it - please look it up. It should be taught in every school in every grade in the US. It makes people THINK !!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

Did this shift only take place in the last year and a half? Because it sure seemed like thousands of people were streaming across the border just 2 years ago.

-The US is still the most likely place in the world to get ahead.

-The social programs here are still better than almost anywhere else.

-The quality of life is certainly better than anywhere else.

-Income inequality is a problem everywhere. In many (most?) places it is worse than here.

I am saddened by people who think the US is a terrible place. No one said it was perfect.

Income equality in the US is rated by a few different groups, according to a variety of indicators. According to all the groups that report income equality, and exclude black market income, the US rates in the worst third of all 195 countries in the calculations. That means MOST countries have better income equality than we do.

In quality of life, 19 other countries have a better standard of living than we do, according to both CEO World as of 2025, and US News as of 2022.

Switzerland is the country "most likely" to get ahead. The US comes in third place after Singapore.

The US is not a tier one country for social programs. It's tier 2. Scandinavian countries consistently rank on the top of the lists, in tier 1.

So basically - every claim you make - is either not entirely correct, flat out false, or significantly false.

You can be disappointed in your country and still want to live there. As long as you're permitted to enact change, there's always hope for improvement.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Another factor that hurts the US is that we don't limit the amount that rich people can put into political campaigns. (I believe that was a change in the law. I don't know what year?) People think that elections are one person - one vote, but really it is one RICH person paying for many political advertisements distorting the truth and effecting probably 10 voters. We also have way more TV channels BENDING the TRUTH after 1980.

They can contribute to PACs. I'd be very happy if we got rid of PACs entirely. I'd also be very happy to pay another few cents in taxes every year, if the result was - every candidate was given a bank to work with from the government AND all media outlets were required to give equal time to all candidates in the same time slots.

So Candidate Horrible Jones gets a 30-second spot at 7:49PM during the Steelers game, and Candidate Lousy Smith gets a 30-second spot at 7:29 during the same game.

They can trash each other, or they can explain why they're the best option. But they only get 30 seconds to do it, and they don't get to pay extra for more time.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I guess that’s one way to look at it? Another view might conclude that America doesn’t want to penalize sacrifice, hard work, and the associated success that can come with taking personal responsibility, they want to reward it. It could also be viewed that America doesn’t want to incentivize those without self initiative to feel like they can take a free ride on the coat tails of their hard working, risk taking, and personal sacrificing fellow citizens. Perhaps America doesn’t want anyone to be demonstrably poor, they want everyone to be as demonstrably productive as they possibly can be? There’s always different ways to look at things.

America is 26th in the world for QUALITY of LIFE. We were higher in say 1980 when the income tax system started to change toward benefiting the rich. Today the rich are not just happy about being rich, they want to change the whole American system toward.....RULE by and for the RICH. Starting by making it more difficult to vote.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Babubhat

The government has unlimited power to tax. A non-issue.

The current tax system and other systems PREVENT upward mobility.