[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by tkret

Wow! I don't think there was this much "discussion" over the Casey Anthony decision.

My favorite post on this thread, so far. Smack in the head clarity. Brilliant.

[Oren L Miller]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Thank you for your post. I want to bawl my eyes out just reading it, much less seeing the scars in person.

As for this whole Vick matter, isn't the heart of it all the fact that our society idolizes Hollywood stars, politicians, and college/pro athletes, purposely disregarding their having no morals or common decency???

idol·ize verb \ˈī-də-ˌlīz\

Definition of IDOLIZE

transitive verb

: to worship as a god; broadly : to love or admire to excess

[Oren L Miller]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

My favorite post on this thread, so far. Smack in the head clarity. Brilliant.

On Casey Anthony 99.9 percent of the people think she got away with murder. On Michael Vic an over whelming majority think he should be worshipped as a superstar. Sad day isn't it?

[Oren L Miller]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

My favorite post on this thread, so far. Smack in the head clarity. Brilliant.

Casey Anthony is the most hated woman in the USA. Michael Vic is a superstar making millions of dollars and considered a model human being. Seriously?

[villagegolfer]

Originally Posted by Oren L Miller

Casey Anthony is the most hated woman in the USA. Michael Vic is a superstar making millions of dollars and considered a model human being. Seriously?

I personally do not know one person who has told me that they hate Miss Anthony. On the other hand, I have been told by people that they admire Vicks for repenting and doing his talks about animal abuse. Seems like a swell guy to me.

[ladydoc]

"What you state here is elitist BS! You keep saying these things as if they are/were in evidence and us normal folk could never understand unless we read some books that I guess you've read."

"I could not agree more with the assertion that unless you "read books" you will not understand complicated emotional problems.
If being educated on a subject and voicing facts which others will/have not
taken the time to understand make me or others "elitist" then I must confess
that I am an "elitist".."
__________________________________________________ _______________
For those who asked what I meant by posts being anti-education, this is a good example. Yes, in fact, people who have studied subjects for years in school and then gathered more experiencial knowledge applying what they learned in the world, probably do, in fact, know more about those subjects. Why that makes one elitist or a snob (as someone said), I don't understand. It does makes you more knowledgable. You can decide to believe or not believe the facts; thats up to you; but stop attacking the messenger!

[Oren L Miller]

Originally Posted by ladydoc

"What you state here is elitist BS! You keep saying these things as if they are/were in evidence and us normal folk could never understand unless we read some books that I guess you've read."

"I could not agree more with the assertion that unless you "read books" you will not understand complicated emotional problems.
If being educated on a subject and voicing facts which others will/have not
taken the time to understand make me or others "elitist" then I must confess
that I am an "elitist".."
__________________________________________________ _______________
For those who asked what I meant by posts being anti-education, this is a good example. Yes, in fact, people who have studied subjects for years in school and then gathered more experiencial knowledge applying what they learned in the world, probably do, in fact, know more about those subjects. Why that makes one elitist or a snob (as someone said), I don't understand. It does makes you more knowledgable. You can decide to believe or not believe the facts; thats up to you; but stop attacking the messenger!

You don't need to read the book. The facts are that he deliberately abused animals for money and personal pleasure. The emotions are that he is a hero and superstar. Myself - I go with the facts.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by ladydoc

__________________________________________________ _______________
For those who asked what I meant by posts being anti-education, this is a good example. Yes, in fact, people who have studied subjects for years in school and then gathered more experiencial knowledge applying what they learned in the world, probably do, in fact, know more about those subjects. Why that makes one elitist or a snob (as someone said), I don't understand. It does makes you more knowledgable. You can decide to believe or not believe the facts; thats up to you; but stop attacking the messenger!

As the one who used the snob word I would like to defend myself. I called the poster a snob because of the condescending attitude that was taken, and not the fact that they advocated reading and learning. As a long time educator myself, I beleive in education, but you can read all kinds of books that totally disagree about almost any subject and eventually you must accept or reject the various hypothesis based on your own feelings, biases, and prejudices as well as the theories put forth in the books. "Facts" that are irrefutable are a bit hard to come by, so I tend to be skeptical of anyone who puports to have all the "facts".

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Oren L Miller

Casey Anthony is the most hated woman in the USA. Michael Vic is a superstar making millions of dollars and considered a model human being. Seriously?

Casey Anthony deserves to be the most hated woman in the USA. She's right up there with O.J.

I'm not all that sure Vick is seen as a model human being, but unlike Anthony, he seems honest in his repentance.

Although the mistreatment of the dogs was atrocious, and he should and did have to pay the piper, I view the mistreatment of human beings as a hugely more serious matter.

Do you people know the living conditions and treatment of the animals that are raised and caged and slaughtered for your dining pleasure? It's not very pretty.

[ladydoc]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

As the one who used the snob word I would like to defend myself. I called the poster a snob because of the condescending attitude that was taken, and not the fact that they advocated reading and learning. As a long time educator myself, I beleive in education, but you can read all kinds of books that totally disagree about almost any subject and eventually you must accept or reject the various hypothesis based on your own feelings, biases, and prejudices as well as the theories put forth in the books. "Facts" that are irrefutable are a bit hard to come by, so I tend to be skeptical of anyone who puports to have all the "facts".

A fact is a fact is a fact. The earth is round whether you accept or reject the hypothesis and no matter what your personal feelings, biases and prejudices are. Again, you can believe what you want to believe... however, that does not change a fact. The truth is, some people know more about some things then others do. I know nothing about many many things, but I do know a lot about others. And I know the difference between the two. I know when to defer to the experts. I do not need to know everything or have others think I know everything. I am secure enough to not be threatened by that kind of nonsense.

[Oren L Miller]

Originally Posted by ladydoc

A fact is a fact is a fact. The earth is round whether you accept or reject the hypothesis and no matter what your personal feelings, biases and prejudices are. Again, you can believe what you want to believe... however, that does not change a fact. The truth is, some people know more about some things then others do. I know nothing about many many things, but I do know a lot about others. And I know the difference between the two. I know when to defer to the experts. I do not need to know everything or have others think I know everything. I am secure enough to not be threatened by that kind of nonsense.

I agree 100%. I could not have said this any better. My wife and I rescued dogs for many years and I get very emotional about people abusing them. You are obviously a very learned person and you said this eloquently.

[villagegolfer]

Originally Posted by ladydoc

A fact is a fact is a fact. The earth is round whether you accept or reject the hypothesis and no matter what your personal feelings, biases and prejudices are. Again, you can believe what you want to believe... however, that does not change a fact. The truth is, some people know more about some things then others do. I know nothing about many many things, but I do know a lot about others. And I know the difference between the two. I know when to defer to the experts. I do not need to know everything or have others think I know everything. I am secure enough to not be threatened by that kind of nonsense.

Well, I have read many books and do not have a degree, so I guess I am dum.

Elitists make me laugh. They go to school and have to listen to pompous "professors" who have received their knowledge from their pompous professors .who have no real life experience. Most have lived in their Ivy towers and speak down to the unwashed masses like the pompous a**** that they are.

[bkcunningham1]

Originally Posted by Doodlegirl

background, and work in rescuing. Several pages back I believe I commented
about Michael Vick and opined that he is a sad excuse for being a sports
model. Imagine if you would, that in the football stands are dogs who have been taught to assist the blind, hearing impaired, physically handicapped - others who alert their owners to oncoming seizures. The dog as a companion animal, or worker (sheparding, guarding, finding the dead and injured in war).

Michael Vick chose the work he wanted his dogs to do, and do it until their
abusive deaths by betting on flesh. I would be remiss if I did not stop in again to say, the punishment did not fit the crime, that the NFL didn't give a damn, and those of us who have carried these lifeless bodies from crime scenes for 30 years or more...or, tried to rehabilitate them after cruelty, ARE in a position to be both knowledgable and passionate about this case.

If you would like to meet one, come over and visit. I'll show you a dog who was Hearworm Positive, in fourth stage congestive heart failure, had 3rd degree burns between every toe pad of all four feet, and would drop to the
ground at the sight of a tall man. I have had Gus for 7 years now, he was not a dog who was destined to be rescued and rehomed except by me. In the two months I've lived in my cyv, my neighbors have come to meet me...and Gus. They are shocked to see a big dog tremble. Shake at the sight of a human being other than me. Gus cannot go to the Squares on a leash, he falls to the ground shaking. He cannot be walked outside in fact, he knows only his yard. He has, he does, he will ever be what was done to him.
But he is loved greatly now and he loves back with me.

Upon examination by the Vet at rescue, Gus was 1 year old, Gus had to be completely shaved because he was so matted and the Vet felt there would
be other signs of abuse. That is where the marks of the belt and the buckle were seen. Over sixty scars along his back and chest, many not healed.
As the title of the book about the juvenile Justice system indicates, Gus is "Weeping In the Playtime of Others". The debate here has been enlightened by Annabelle's information. I am a Psychologist, among other things, and I will say Michael Vick would still be doing what he was doing except for one thing...he got caught. Those who want to cheer him on and
cheer him loudly should do so, for the rest of us there is still work to do in
this Country and it is evident from the discussion. Gus was manually debarked as a young dog, so he won't be on the cheering side if you know what I mean.

I saw an episode of The Dog Whisperer where he greatly helped a dog which had a similar fear of people and had been abused like the dog you wrote about.

Who had debarked your dog?

[PennBF]

Below are some thoughts when being critical of books and education. I am
surprised that some would think that education and reading implies an
elist or snobish person as opposed to an informed individual.

“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education."
Thomas Jefferson
“A room without books is like a life without meaning.”
Thomas Jefferson
"Bear in mind that the wonderful things you learn in your schools are the work of many generations, produced by enthusiastic effort and infinite labor in every country of the world. All this is put into your hands as your inheritance in order that you may receive it, honor it, add to it, and one day faithfully hand it to your children. Thus do we mortals achieve immortality in the permanent things which we create in common."
Albert Einstein
"It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that he does not really need a college. He can learn them from books. The value of an education in a liberal arts college is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think something that cannot be learned from textbooks."
Albert Einstein
“To penetrate and dissipate these clouds of darkness, the general mind must be strengthened by education”
Thomas Jefferson

[ilovetv]

So, what books should Michael Vick read?