[perrjojo]

Judge not; lest ye be judged.

[wendyquat]

Hmmm! I'm thinking maybe some of the ones supporting Vick may not have a relationship with a lovable pup, therefore not understanding how some of us who treat our dogs as our children really feel!

[Tom Hannon]

Originally Posted by wendyquat

Hmmm! I'm thinking maybe some of the ones supporting Vick may not have a relationship with a lovable pup, therefore not understanding how some of us who treat our dogs as our children really feel!

A Homerun Wendy. So true. And for those who haven't shared the love of a dog they don't know what they are missing.

[duffysmom]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

If people can’t be reformed, why not just keep everyone locked away or execute them? Something is wrong with a sense of right and wrong when you can’t determine the difference in an dog and a child in examples of Vick and child abusers. What has the world come to when you can accept that an animal that has been bred and raised to fight to the death can be rehabed but not a man?

The dogs who were bred and raised to fight to the death were victimized and tortured while Michael Vick who had every advantage a human can have as an adult, chose to entertain himself by funding and watching dogs being ripped apart and if they weren't vicious enough he punished them by torturing and killing them as poor performers. Whether or not Michael Vick can be rehabilitated is only a small part of the problem. The fact thay he is allowed to play football and put his tainted name on a clothing line is despicable. The fact that he has fans because he can play football is unbelievable. By the way, Vick will soon be able to own a dog as a pet.

Quotes from Gandhi:

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated.

I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man.

[bkcunningham1]

Originally Posted by Patty55

Actually, those poor animals generally cannot be rehabed. To me the difference lies in THE MAN HAD A CHOICE. In my experience dogs want nothing more than to please, they will lend themselves to abuse to please their owner. You make your choices in life, you accept the consequences.

Michael Vick had a life that many would envy, he blew it, BIG TIME.

I have read different stories I suppose. This should make you very happy. What happened to Michael Vick's dogs... - SI.com - Magazine

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

I have read different stories I suppose. This should make you very happy. What happened to Michael Vick's dogs... - SI.com - Magazine

Don't know if you read the entire story, guess we all define "very happy differently".

"In the end, 47 of the 51 Vick dogs were saved. (Two died while in the shelters; one was destroyed because it was too violent; and another was euthanized for medical reasons.) Twenty-two dogs went to Best Friends, where McMillan and his staff chart their emotional state daily; almost all show steady improvement in categories such as calmness, sociability and happiness. McMillan believes 17 of the dogs will eventually be adopted, and applicants are being screened for the first of those. The other 25 have been spread around the country; the biggest group, 10, went to California with BAD RAP. Fourteen of the 25 have been placed in permanent homes, and the rest are in foster care."

Read more: What happened to Michael Vick's dogs... - SI.com - Magazine

17 out of 47 will EVENTUALLY BE ADOPTED, 4 euthanized, the rest in sanctuary... I'M NOT HAPPY.

[redwitch]

I've had pets my entire life. I don't have a dog right now but I've certainly known and loved my share of them. I have never nor will I ever condone what Michael Vick did. It was wrong and it was cruel. That anyone would train a dog to kill, to kill an innocent animal for no reason is beyond my comprehension and is nauseating to me. However, he did go to prison, he has gone above and beyond what was required of him to "atone" for his crime. I truly hope and pray he has changed his attitude and it isn't all an act to look good.

Personally, I think he has changed. Prior to his arrest, he was known to be arrogant; to hang out with his grade school and high school friends (many of whom were known gangbangers); there were incidents reported about criminal behavior occurring on his property by his friends. Since he has been released from prison, I haven't heard of any more incidents. Supposedly, he has dropped most of his former friends. I don't hear the stories of his arrogant behavior any longer. So, I think he has changed and at least deserves a second chance. That doesn't mean to forget his prior acts, it means forgive, give him a chance to show he has been rehabilitated, changed, become the decent person we want everyone to be.

I'm not saying buy his clothing line or watch a game where he is playing. That's up to you. I am saying this hatred, this vitriol is just as wrong. Loath his past acts but hope that he has truly changed his views.

We've all been taught to forgive, to give people a chance -- it is very much a part of the Judeo-Christian ethic. If he betrays our trust a second time, then it is time to loathe the man, not just his prior actions.

BTW -- For an interesting article on dog fighting, read this link. It definitely shows the evilness but also shows how easy it is to convince a child or a young man to participate, especially if they come from the inner city as Michael Vick did. Dog Fighting Detailed Discussion

[perrjojo]

Originally Posted by wendyquat

Hmmm! I'm thinking maybe some of the ones supporting Vick may not have a relationship with a lovable pup, therefore not understanding how some of us who treat our dogs as our children really feel!

I have a very loving relationship with our "little" boy but I do not know or never will know what is in the heart of another.

[wendyquat]

I don't know what is in Michael Vicks heart nor do I want to know. In my mind he is "evil personified"!

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by duffysmom

Quotes from Gandhi:

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated.

I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man.

I read Gandhi's quotes to my dogs and they're nodding their heads.

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by perrjojo

Judge not; lest ye be judged.

Slightly OT, but are you aware that Matthew 7:1 is the most misquoted of all verses.

Personally, I believe in Karma, I see the Karma bus heading toward Michael Vick.

[bkcunningham1]

Patty55, I wasn't being flippant with you. You said the dogs weren't rehabbed. Some were and I think that is better than all being euthanized.

I suppose we all have different standards and will have to agree to disagree. I personally believe in forgiveness and reconciliation. Matthew 6:14-15 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Peace.

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

Patty55, I wasn't being flippant with you. You said the dogs weren't rehabbed. Some were and I think that is better than all being euthanized.

I suppose we all have different standards and will have to agree to disagree. I personally believe in forgiveness and reconciliation. Matthew 6:14-15 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Peace.

They weren't rehabbed, they are in sanctuary, that is not rehab. Yes, we have different standards. I cannot defend a person who has a life most would envy and uses it for evil. I don't understand why anyone would.

Personally, I don't care if he designs clothing, without seeing his designs I can say it is not anything that would interest me, just not my style. Again, I don't shop in that store, nothing for me to boycott.

I don't care if he plays football, my karmic belief is he won't be playing it for long.

[duffysmom]

Forgiveness is given so that the person forgiving can lead a happy and productive life. I know that the dogs he victimized would forgive him that's their nature. I don't hold hatred in my heart for any person. What I object to is categorizing his serial killing of dogs as being paid for in full by a light sentence and then being rewarded with contracts so that he can be idolized by young people as an athlete and now a designer. Has he been rehabilitated, who knows, but I don't think you can rehabilitate a sociopath and his actions done without conscience were sociopathic IMO. Like Patty55 stated, I believe in Karma and know that he will pay for his atrocities in more than a monetary way.

[quirky3]

Forgiveness and paying your dues are one aspect. But choosing to glorify or honor someone like that with a clothing line? Would you run out and buy "O.J. Simpson sportswear" or "Casey Anthony nightclub fashions"?