[waterman1952]

Since this is my first post I hope I don't offend anyone but I think it's called "junk" because we are old and it doesn't work so well anymore, sort of like an old Dodge K-car!

[Don H]

Quill: I agree with you. Also...the tsa dog and pony show adds one more factor to the equation. It provides an even better target for terrorists by bunching hundreds of people at a time into constricted areas at airport checkpoints. For me, that is the scariest part of the trip. And..the tsa suffers from mission creep. They are now taking on some boarding checkpoints on trains.

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

You got to stop obsessing about me. It's getting creepy.

Creepy is fixating on groping and scanning. Need to spend more time on the uninformed populace and that infernal liberal media.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by quill

Tbugs I do not believe you read any of my posts very closely. If you really believe it is just as simple as a safety issue then I ask why are you not more concerned about all the security holes in an airport access. The only people really affected by this theater are the passengers and aircrew. Somebody said earlier that they and others had fixed the holes after 911 by writing letters, well then why within the last year was a pilot that filmed the card swipe gate I was talking about and other areas of access, being threaten by TSA for disclosing the info. He was just showing what most people do not know or care to understand. And if everyone is so concerned about security what sense does it make to put pilot through this theater. It just makes the lines longer at security. As I said they do not need to have anything to do damage. I keep asking what the line is that everyone is willing to draw over which they will not put up with this anymore? Should we start x-raying everyone that goes to school, the mall, church, etc. etc. etc.? I think Richie is correct most of you do not want to really consider this in the bigger context that it should be seen in. If I really thought I was safer because of this theater I would be willing to go along.

Believe me Quill, it doesn't seem too many care. They might be a little concerned by my pointing out that their views validating the non-existence of personal privacy extends to their children who are also subject to being virtually strip searched and/or molested at the airport, because they haven't addressed it, but that's about it.

Never the less. We have champions of American Freedom in a few states and as more examples of the belligerent tactics of the national private police force known as the TSA become more widely known, we will have more. I have faith that the American ideal of personal freedom will prevail in the end.

Just in case anybody want to read a professional's opinion on the state of security at our nation's airports and Israel's security protocols, I'll leave a link.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/...pful-insights/

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Creepy is fixating on groping and scanning. Need to spend more time on the uninformed populace and that infernal liberal media.

Not meant for you Chi-Town. Meant for someone with seemingly little ability for intelligent debate and lots of time to personal deride.

I'm fixated on personal freedom Chi-town. Why lower yourself with your comment. Investigate and see what's happened to some of your fellow citizens at the airports and how many lies have been told to us. Expand your field of reference.

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Not meant for you Chi-Town. Meant for someone with seemingly little ability for intelligent debate and lots of time to personal deride.

I'm fixated on personal freedom Chi-town. Why lower yourself with your comment. Investigate and see what's happened to some of your fellow citizens at the airports and how many lies have been told to us. Expand your field of reference.

Okay. Thanks.

[RichieLion]

How about this story? Riker's Islands inmates were awarded $35 Million Dollars for illegal strip searches after they were arrested for various crimes. It's a bit more invasive than the subject matter here, as they were physically stripped and airline passengers are virtually stripped, but it's still worthy of some thought.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/f...SVrWs1fozUXhFJ

[K9-Lovers]

Quill and RichieLion,

Instead of downgrading passenger security, why not focus on upgrading the rest of airport security where the alleged "gaps" exist? If you focus your energy in that direction, it seems you would be accomplishing a greater good.

And, yes Quill, I would love to see breathalizers in all vehicles to eliminate drunks being able to turn on the car ignition.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by K9-Lovers

Quill and RichieLion,

Instead of downgrading passenger security, why not focus on upgrading the rest of airport security where the alleged "gaps" exist? If you focus your energy in that direction, it seems you would be accomplishing a greater good.

And, yes Quill, I would love to see breathalizers in all vehicles to eliminate drunks being able to turn on the car ignition.

Sorry, I don't agree. System needs complete overhaul and transformation into something very close to Israeli model.

[EdV]

You seem to have overlooked the fact that we are at war with these terrorists. Remember that these religious fanatics are quite willing to blow themselves up along with as many innocent victims as possible in order to spend eternity with Allah surrounded by a hundred virgins.

If you don’t like the way our government defends itself and its citizens against these terrorists, then don’t place your private parts onto our public transportation. Want to fly with little or no TSA intervention, charter a private plane. But just because you aren’t wealthy enough to afford that, don’t ask us to completely drop our guard and lean into the punch for you.

These security measures will not guaranty our safety on public transportation but are merely one of many defenses that are necessary in order to win the war against terrorism.

And remember too that we have temporarily given up certain rights in the past during times of war. During WWII my father was an engineer working for a defense contractor and was not allowed to change jobs without government approval.

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

You seem to have overlooked the fact that we are at war with these terrorists. Remember that these religious fanatics are quite willing to blow themselves up along with as many innocent victims as possible in order to spend eternity with Allah surrounded by a hundred virgins.

If you don’t like the way our government defends itself and its citizens against these terrorists, then don’t place your private parts onto our public transportation. Want to fly with little or no TSA intervention, charter a private plane. But just because you aren’t wealthy enough to afford that, don’t ask us to completely drop our guard and lean into the punch for you.

These security measures will not guaranty our safety on public transportation but are merely one of many defenses that are necessary in order to win the war against terrorism.

And remember too that we have temporarily given up certain rights in the past during times of war. During WWII my father was an engineer working for a defense contractor and was not allowed to change jobs without government approval.

Well said, Ed...

But my guess is the response will be that what TSA is doing is NOT protecting us; I disagree. Also there will be a link to airport security in Israel. If you think our freedoms are at risk - you should read up on theirs! They stop all people entering an airport for a check of the entire vehicle. If they think you look nervous or suspicious, you are pulled over and the entire car is searched. You then pass through the lines with people judging if you look suspicious. Then there are electronic scanners. If you have an Arab-sounding name you are subjected to a full body search - which may include cavity searches....

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by katezbox

Well said, Ed...

But my guess is the response will be that what TSA is doing is NOT protecting us; I disagree. Also there will be a link to airport security in Israel. If you think our freedoms are at risk - you should read up on theirs! They stop all people entering an airport for a check of the entire vehicle. If they think you look nervous or suspicious, you are pulled over and the entire car is searched. You then pass through the lines with people judging if you look suspicious. Then there are electronic scanners. If you have an Arab-sounding name you are subjected to a full body search - which may include cavity searches....

ooooch.

Cavity searches.

[Challenger]

Isreali air security cost= approx $80 per passenger , US = less than $7.

Isreal= approx 11,000,000 passenengers per year, international and domestic.

US Passengers 2010=809,000,000x $70+/- = $56,000,000,000.

Isreal has two international and 6-8 domestic airports with scheduled passenger service. The US has 376 airports with schedules pass. service

Although there may be elements of the Israeli system that could be used, does anyone believe their system is practical here?

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Isreali air security cost= approx $80 per passenger , US = less than $7.

Isreal= approx 11,000,000 passenengers per year, international and domestic.

US Passengers 2010=809,000,000x $70+/- = $56,000,000,000.

Isreal has two international and 6-8 domestic airports with scheduled passenger service. The US has 376 airports with schedules pass. service

Although there may be elements of the Israeli system that could be used, does anyone believe their system is practical here?

I don't see any links to back up your figures, but again, I put no price on American liberty.

Yes, it is correct that I believe, with much evidence on my side, that the TSA is blowing smoke up your butt with their security theatre as they take away your freedom and dignity as free Americans.

The vast majority of Israeli passengers are whisked through through airports with no lines. Certain passengers who fit certain behavioral profiles are singled out for scrutiny with amazing success. If you are not one of those deemed to be checked you whiz through the line, with anything you're carrying. Israelis know more about freedom than Americans now.

I linked a good site before outlining Israeli Security protocols. How about reading it. You might learn something and that's not a bad thing.

[Challenger]

Rich--My figures come from research today on various internet sites and I welcome correction if someone can produce better info. I post them only because I hear so often that we should adopt the Israeli system without any reference to the costs. I believe that is what the past several national administrations have done with such devestating consequences for our children and grandchildren. I am concerned about the relinquishment of freedoms, but I also believe that freedom from violence is a worthy objective that may in some cases trump others. BTW my son is an international airline pilot; my daughter a retired flight attendant; my daughter in law , a retired flight attendant; my son in law, a retired marine pilot and I am a private pilot. They have described to me many times procedures and shortcomings in secutiry well beyond those that you have mentioned here.

Pilots and crew go through essentially the same security checks as passengers( as if it matters, remember the Egyptian Pilot sucicide crash off LI) and a wrong comment to a TSA inspector can result in severe disciplinary procedures against them.Clearly there are some procedures that need revisitation and I am hopeful that discussions and debates such as ours will result in a better process. Do you think that they are listening?