[Happydaz]

All these discussions seem to have some people on one side favoring the single speed heat pump as they believe a unit that runs all the time at 100% unless it is off doesn’t save on electricity over variable speed units.This is their belief but they have no experience to base their assumptions on. They also believe parts are hard to get and the comfort profile isn’t better with the 75-80 variable speed heat pumps. Guess what. This discussion would be a non issue if these different heat pumps cost the same. I will admit that spending $3000 more upfront is not easy, but in my case the system is so quiet and comfortable as the air slowly moves throughout all the rooms. No cold or hot spots. I could never go back. Then people say you never get your money back. How do they know? I will get my $3000 extra back in 7 years. (Saving $35 a month in electricity)

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

All these discussions seem to have some people on one side favoring the single speed heat pump as they believe a unit that runs all the time at 100% unless it is off doesn’t save on electricity over variable speed units.This is their belief but they have no experience to base their assumptions on. They also believe parts are hard to get and the comfort profile isn’t better with the 75-80 variable speed heat pumps. Guess what. This discussion would be a non issue if these different heat pumps cost the same. I will admit that spending $3000 more upfront is not easy, but in my case the system is so quiet and comfortable as the air slowly moves throughout all the rooms. No cold or hot spots. I could never go back. Then people say you never get your money back. How do they know? I will get my $3000 extra back in 7 years. (Saving $35 a month in electricity)

Thanks for the honest feedback on your system. This thread, I believe, is showing how many here in the Villages tend to shy away from anything new and the thought process the old tried and true is always better. I think if we all had that thought pattern we would all be driving old cars without any electronics if we could. Another problem is with HVAC systems, many don't have or can understand the technology, so they rely on the HVAC contractor to make their decisions, which is fine but although many HVAC contractors here in the Villages are honest and reputable, they only know what they know right? Depending onthe size and breath of their business you are getting an opinion on when to repair or change and when changing, what to go with. I agree when variable systems first came out about 10 years ago there were lots of issues that needed to be worked out but now it's a fairly mature technology with a lot of benefits. My opinion is a reputable HVAC contractor should lay out all the options with all the facts when a customer is looking to replace and then let them decide since everyone has different needs and situations. As far as repair, although an experienced HVAC contractor will have a good idea on how long your system may last given it's age and history, it's only a guess. One school of though is repair until it drops so the HVAC contractor makes the most money on repairs. Another is replace so they make their money up front and can service more customers. No right or wrong, just the way it is. Always remember, if you unit fails unexpectantly and it's in the hot season, you may be without AC for a while and at the end of the day when you sell your home the HVAC system is going to be a significant factor on whether you get your price or not. Anyway, thanks for your post on your personal experience with one of these Variable speed inverter systems.

[ithos]

I installed an EasyStart whicy significantly reduces the noise upon start and extends the life of the compressor. I installed it myself but most people should get a tech to do it.

Why Every Homeowner Should Consider Installing an AC Soft Starter | Micro Air Easy Start Install
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp1g8r8IVs&t=301s

[Risuli]

Originally Posted by jrref

This thread, I believe, is showing how many here in the Villages tend to shy away from anything new and the thought process the old tried and true is always better. I think if we all had that thought pattern we would all be driving old cars without any electronics if we could.

Obviously there is some truth in what you are saying, but "the old tried and true" has a much longer track record to judge against. If you are of the age to move to the Villages, as most all are, you have certainly experienced the change in what used to be truly "durable goods", like furnaces/AC, stoves, refrigerators, hot water tanks, washers/dryers etc. Growing up these items LASTED. Furnaces/AC could go 20+ years, stoves forever, refrigerators well over 10 years (I sold my grandparents 1940 fridge a few years back after 70 years of perfect use!). Hot water tanks routinely lasted well over 10 years; washers/dryers over 10 years as well.

Now, due to plan obsolesence, most hot water tanks have a 6 year warranty, as well as all the other appliances with a 1 year/5 year parts warranty now. And these things simply do not last HALF as long as they used to as they are no longer made to do so. Guess all I am saying is that the impression is that NEWER, for some, means less reliable.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Risuli

Obviously there is some truth in what you are saying, but "the old tried and true" has a much longer track record to judge against. If you are of the age to move to the Villages, as most all are, you have certainly experienced the change in what used to be truly "durable goods", like furnaces/AC, stoves, refrigerators, hot water tanks, washers/dryers etc. Growing up these items LASTED. Furnaces/AC could go 20+ years, stoves forever, refrigerators well over 10 years (I sold my grandparents 1940 fridge a few years back after 70 years of perfect use!). Hot water tanks routinely lasted well over 10 years; washers/dryers over 10 years as well.

Now, due to plan obsolesence, most hot water tanks have a 6 year warranty, as well as all the other appliances with a 1 year/5 year parts warranty now. And these things simply do not last HALF as long as they used to as they are no longer made to do so. Guess all I am saying is that the impression is that NEWER, for some, means less reliable.

Good points. The construction industry is very resistant to changes. One reason is that they have been burned. Do you remember the polybutylene pipe lawsuits, and the aluminum wiring lawsuits? Houses are still constructed using 2x4 wood studs, drywall, and asphalt shingles. Personally, I can accept newer designs, but when I replace a major item in my house, I consider the impact of having something fail and the availability of replacement materials and the labor to install it. One reason that I would not buy a variable speed heat pump is that it only represents about 5 percent of the new replacement market. If it was 50 percent, I might buy one. To me, the potential benefits do not outweigh the tried and true system. I know that I can get a single stage heat pump repaired almost immediately in The Villages, which is very important when you have no air conditioning. My opinion.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Risuli

Obviously there is some truth in what you are saying, but "the old tried and true" has a much longer track record to judge against. If you are of the age to move to the Villages, as most all are, you have certainly experienced the change in what used to be truly "durable goods", like furnaces/AC, stoves, refrigerators, hot water tanks, washers/dryers etc. Growing up these items LASTED. Furnaces/AC could go 20+ years, stoves forever, refrigerators well over 10 years (I sold my grandparents 1940 fridge a few years back after 70 years of perfect use!). Hot water tanks routinely lasted well over 10 years; washers/dryers over 10 years as well.

Now, due to plan obsolesence, most hot water tanks have a 6 year warranty, as well as all the other appliances with a 1 year/5 year parts warranty now. And these things simply do not last HALF as long as they used to as they are no longer made to do so. Guess all I am saying is that the impression is that NEWER, for some, means less reliable.

I don't disagree that they don't make things like they used to. My point is, when your HVAC system does need replacing, you will have a choice of a single stage, multi stage or variable speed inverter system. All three systems will not be built like they used to. So, given that, if you can get the more capable variable speed system vs the single or multi-stage system for the same or slightly more money why wouldn't you do that? Especially if there is small higher cost that can be recovered in a couple years from the energy savings. Considering you are getting full parts and labor for 10 or 15 years on all three systems means the manufacture believes all three systems will last about the same length of time so even if one system is more complicated than the other so it will fail more often the manufacture doesn't believe so and you are covered. I do know that most of the larger HVAC companies servicing the Villages do stock these variable speed systems now so you can probably get one in a day assuming the technicians are available.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by ithos

I installed an EasyStart whicy significantly reduces the noise upon start and extends the life of the compressor. I installed it myself but most people should get a tech to do it.

Why Every Homeowner Should Consider Installing an AC Soft Starter | Micro Air Easy Start Install
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp1g8r8IVs&t=301s

Interesting, I've been looking at those, was there room to install inside the unit.

A little worried it could void the 10yr parts warranty?

[ithos]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Good points. The construction industry is very resistant to changes. One reason is that they have been burned. Do you remember the polybutylene pipe lawsuits, and the aluminum wiring lawsuits? Houses are still constructed using 2x4 wood studs, drywall, and asphalt shingles. Personally, I can accept newer designs, but when I replace a major item in my house, I consider the impact of having something fail and the availability of replacement materials and the labor to install it. One reason that I would not buy a variable speed heat pump is that it only represents about 5 percent of the new replacement market. If it was 50 percent, I might buy one. To me, the potential benefits do not outweigh the tried and true system. I know that I can get a single stage heat pump repaired almost immediately in The Villages, which is very important when you have no air conditioning. My opinion.

Varable speed compressors are almost as common as single stage in new installations. (commerical and residential).
I agree there are more means of failure but most can be repaired and on average they last significantly longer than single stage.

Staged compressors
Electrical Stress:
High inrush current puts thermal and magnetic stress on windings and contactors, which can lead to insulation breakdown over time.
Mechanical Stress:
Sudden high torque causes shock loads on mechanical components (compressor shaft, bearings, mounts).

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030

[ithos]

Originally Posted by Altavia

Interesting, I've been looking at those, was there room to install inside the unit.

A little worried it could void the 10yr parts warranty?

If installed properly it significantly reduces probablilty of failure and that would be a benefit for the insurer. It also has limited protection for spikes in voltage.

I would contact the contractor who installed it. It can be a DIY but they may have reservations.

[retiredguy123]

///

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by ithos

Varable speed compressors are almost as common as single stage in new installations. (commerical and residential).
I agree there are more means of failure but most can be repaired and on average they last significantly longer than single stage.

Staged compressors
Electrical Stress:
High inrush current puts thermal and magnetic stress on windings and contactors, which can lead to insulation breakdown over time.
Mechanical Stress:
Sudden high torque causes shock loads on mechanical components (compressor shaft, bearings, mounts).

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030

I would take issue with your first sentence, especially in The Villages.

Market Share:
While precise market share figures are hard to find, the market for variable speed heat pumps is growing. A 2021 J.D. Power report suggests that variable-capacity central equipment represents only about 5% of central HVAC equipment sales, indicating a larger share for single-speed and two-stage systems. However, the growing focus on energy efficiency and comfort is expected to drive further adoption of variable speed systems.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I would take issue with your first sentence, especially in The Villages.

Market Share:
While precise market share figures are hard to find, the market for variable speed heat pumps is growing. A 2021 J.D. Power report suggests that variable-capacity central equipment represents only about 5% of central HVAC equipment sales, indicating a larger share for single-speed and two-stage systems. However, the growing focus on energy efficiency and comfort is expected to drive further adoption of variable speed systems.

I would too if it was based on my expertise but I provided a link to a very credible source. I don't think businesses would be installing VSCs if they were more prone to failure. And most importantly the life of the compressor will be extended. In most cases when the compressor fails the whole unit has to be replaced.

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by ithos

I would too if it was based on my expertise but I provided a link to a very credible source. I don't think businesses would be installing VSCs if they were more prone to failure. And most importantly the life of the compressor will be extended. In most cases when the compressor fails the whole unit has to be replaced.

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030

Here is a quote from your source:

"The majority of household heating and cooling systems use single-stage scroll compressors. They have just one speed and are the most basic and cost-effective product."

If you are saying that, in The Villages, varable speed compressors are as common as single stage compressors for new and replacement installations, I cannot agree. Also, the vast majority of existing HVAC systeme in the Villages, that often need to be serviced or repaired, are single stage compressor units.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Here is a quote from your source:

"The majority of household heating and cooling systems use single-stage scroll compressors. They have just one speed and are the most basic and cost-effective product."

If you are saying that, in The Villages, varable speed compressors are as common as single stage compressors for new and replacement installations, I cannot agree. Also, the vast majority of existing HVAC systeme in the Villages, that often need to be serviced or repaired, are single stage compressor units.

I thought it was clear that I was referencing the overall commercial and residential markets as noted in my attachment. I will be more explicit next time.

There is no right or wrong choice. They both have there advantages and drawbacks. A variable speed offers improved comfort since it can provide superior humditity control and eliminates the startup noise that many find annoying. Also there is no blast of hot air every time the unit kicks on.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Altavia

Interesting, I've been looking at those, was there room to install inside the unit.

A little worried it could void the 10yr parts warranty?

I agree that the warranty could indeed be affected. The Carrier warranty does not specifically address a soft start device, but it does say that any modifications to the unit must be authorized by Carrier. I would definitely not install this device on a Carrier compressor that is still covered by a 10-year parts warranty. I watched the video, and you actually need to remove the condenser cover plate and modify the wiring. If the compressor fails, I doubt that Carrier would honor the warranty.