[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I go back and read this thread, and do not see where anyone wants to eliminate any holiday from any category.

This thread is about not celebrating specific group holidays in the public schools where there will be children left on the outside looking in because they do not have a mother or a father or they are Jewish.

Don't strike out before you know why you are doing it. Now if you think holidays should be celebrated in public schools, MY question to you is would you be OK with Gay Pride day, Islamic Day, Atheist Day and so on.

I see the point you are trying to make with some pretty extreme examples but why not use Kwanza or Chanakah or Ramadan...but in answer to that question for me...especially for elementary school and holidays that are celebrated by kids, I would say...YES.

But that isn't being done anymore. Not even Halloween which was SO much fun I thought. We have watered down the fun and taken away the chance to learn by doing this.

I don't think religion should be taught in school or ethics per se, but soon rules will be abolished that MOST of us think are important because everyone can't agree and kids will be coming to school if they want bare butt naked because their parents think that is their right and no one will be able to agree on any rules because we would hurt someone's feelings.

I do NOT expect agreement, but to me, it seems that it is just common sense and dear heavens, I am so glad I am not on either end of the spectrum here. My goal to be moderate in all things fails sometimes, but I see it as reasonable way to deal with such matters. Sometimes in a democracy, the majority has to rule.

I don't know why I wrote this. I respect your right to disagree. Please respect mine.

I sure am finding out a LOT more about people as I grow older.

I am glad I taught when we had Santa Claus and Dreidels and costumes for Halloween. And I got to be an angel in a play when I was a kid. And ate Christmas cookies and Matzoh with my friends at lunch.

And I am glad I got to help the kids when I taught, all of them, make Mother's Day cards and have them explain to whom they were going and why they loved that special person.

Thank you dear teachers for showing us ethics in our public schools when I was a kid.

Times, they are a changin'.

I truly understand and accept how the public schools are today...but this whole issue of Mother's Day is still confusing to me. We couldn't have arrived here without a mother, Everyone has one or a person who stands in that role and making a card for them to me...is nice.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I see the point you are trying to make with some pretty extreme examples but why not use Kwanza or Chanakah or Ramadan...but in answer to that question for me...especially for elementary school and holidays that are celebrated by kids, I would say...YES.
Kwanza or Chanakah or Ramadan are there in my and so on.
But that isn't being done anymore. Not even Halloween which was SO much fun I thought. We have watered down the fun and taken away the chance to learn by doing this. Halloween is thought of by many as EVIL.
I don't think religion should be taught in school or ethics per se, but soon rules will be abolished that MOST of us think are important because everyone can't agree and kids will be coming to school if they want bare butt naked because their parents think that is their right and no one will be able to agree on any rules because we would hurt someone's feelings.LOL And you think I go to the extreme.
I do NOT expect agreement, but to me, it seems that it is just common sense and dear heavens, I am so glad I am not on either end of the spectrum here. My goal to be moderate in all things fails sometimes, but I see it as reasonable way to deal with such matters. Sometimes in a democracy, the majority has to rule. And in a democracy, the needs of all our citizens has to rule.
I don't know why I wrote this. I respect your right to disagree. Please respect mine. I told you in this thread at least twice that I do respect your view and that it should be heard.
I sure am finding out a LOT more about people as I grow older.

I am glad I taught when we had Santa Claus and Dreidels and costumes for Halloween. And I got to be an angel in a play when I was a kid. And ate Christmas cookies and Matzoh with my friends at lunch.

And I am glad I got to help the kids when I taught, all of them, make Mother's Day cards and have them explain to whom they were going and why they loved that special person.

Thank you dear teachers for showing us ethics in our public schools when I was a kid.

Times, they are a changin'.

I truly understand and accept how the public schools are today...but this whole issue of Mother's Day is still confusing to me. We couldn't have arrived here without a mother, Everyone has one or a person who stands in that role and making a card for them to me...is nice.

Keep posting as that is what makes TOTV a Democratic Web Site.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I see the point you are trying to make with some pretty extreme examples but why not use Kwanza or Chanakah or Ramadan...but in answer to that question for me...especially for elementary school and holidays that are celebrated by kids, I would say...YES.

But that isn't being done anymore. Not even Halloween which was SO much fun I thought. We have watered down the fun and taken away the chance to learn by doing this.

I don't think religion should be taught in school or ethics per se, but soon rules will be abolished that MOST of us think are important because everyone can't agree and kids will be coming to school if they want bare butt naked because their parents think that is their right and no one will be able to agree on any rules because we would hurt someone's feelings.

I do NOT expect agreement, but to me, it seems that it is just common sense and dear heavens, I am so glad I am not on either end of the spectrum here. My goal to be moderate in all things fails sometimes, but I see it as reasonable way to deal with such matters. Sometimes in a democracy, the majority has to rule.

I don't know why I wrote this. I respect your right to disagree. Please respect mine.

I sure am finding out a LOT more about people as I grow older.

I am glad I taught when we had Santa Claus and Dreidels and costumes for Halloween. And I got to be an angel in a play when I was a kid. And ate Christmas cookies and Matzoh with my friends at lunch.

And I am glad I got to help the kids when I taught, all of them, make Mother's Day cards and have them explain to whom they were going and why they loved that special person.

Thank you dear teachers for showing us ethics in our public schools when I was a kid.

Times, they are a changin'.

I truly understand and accept how the public schools are today...but this whole issue of Mother's Day is still confusing to me. We couldn't have arrived here without a mother, Everyone has one or a person who stands in that role and making a card for them to me...is nice.

btk

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

....I don't think religion should be taught in school or ethics per se....

Thank you dear teachers for showing us ethics in our public schools when I was a kid.

Agreed that religion has no place in public schools. However, ethics?! Ethics are crucial for a society to function and absolutely should be taught. Even you thank your teachers for "showing us ethics in our public schools when [you were] a kid"!

It's bad enough that so many schools have abandoned the teaching of civics (our responsibilities as a citizen) and geography (leaving many kids with the thought that the U.S. IS the world, or at least the only world that counts...)!

[golf4me]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Agreed that religion has no place in public schools. However, ethics?! Ethics are crucial for a society to function and absolutely should be taught. Even you thank your teachers for "showing us ethics in our public schools when [you were] a kid"!

It's bad enough that so many schools have abandoned the teaching of civics (our responsibilities as a citizen) and geography (leaving many kids with the thought that the U.S. IS the world, or at least the only world that counts...)!

I think I see what Gracie meant. For some people bombs killing people are "ethical". Some people think working the system is ethical. Some people think things that they think are ethical and they are not what others think are ethical. The ethics we used to be taught are thought to be foolish by some. Everyone has their own ethics and values and they are widely disparate.

[jblum315]

The only ethical standard that's meaningful to me is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I go back and read this thread, and do not see where anyone wants to eliminate any holiday from any category.

This thread is about not celebrating specific group holidays in the public schools where there will be children left on the outside looking in because they do not have a mother or a father or they are Jewish.

Don't strike out before you know why you are doing it. Now if you think holidays should be celebrated in public schools, MY question to you is would you be OK with Gay Pride day, Islamic Day, Atheist Day and so on.

I'm reading all of these posts "long after the fact" as I was without computer for a week plus...after my hard drive crashed.......waiting for the new one to arrive.

However, our public school system NEVER celebrated Mother's Day nor Father's Day within the school day. Perhaps in the very early grades of elementary, the teachers would do crafts with the children and let them create a gift for one of their parents......to bring home. But it was not celebrated at school. I still have the handcrafted "art" that both our daughter and son brought home back in the 1970's.....

Sadly, although Christmas concerts were the norm in their early years of education in the public school system..........due to one family moving into the district, who were from India (and I love Indians; have many for friends)......the Christmas concerts were all cancelled from then on.....as they protested them. The Jewish families had NEVER protested the Christmas concerts which were beautiful and always included winter songs, skating songs, even songs about the draidel.

So, a new era dawned..........and then we saw the parades with all of our elementary school children.......etc......celebrating the Aztec Sun God.

I kid you not. You tell me who has influence in the public schools?
It is or was not the mainstream parents......we and all of our friends and neighbors were the traditional parents.......the "Leave it to Beaver" type parents..........but we all were over ruled by the minority.

Gracie..............I HEAR YOU. Don't leave.