[Indydealmaker]

Did anybody do the math?

The Hostess CEO that was making so much money that should have gone to the "little" guy was really a bad bad man! He should have worked for free and given all of his salary to the workers.

They each would have seen their lifestyle change dramatically when they invested the $138 per year that they would gain.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

Did anybody do the math?

The Hostess CEO that was making so much money that should have gone to the "little" guy was really a bad bad man! He should have worked for free and given all of his salary to the workers.

They each would have seen their lifestyle change dramatically when they invested the $138 per year that they would gain.

Much too logical !!

It is similiar to our deficit. Tax all the rich...that solves the problem !

Only problem is that EVERY SINGLE economists will tell you that it does not even pay for a day or two if you did it.

Same premise....the Rich guy is bad and is to be blamed. Poor working guy is a saint. OR vice versa.

It is what it is guys....we are in the middle of class warfare...I know it is not nice to say, but it will control us for years....there is much more of this union/mgmt stuff to come. How do you think the states are going to pay their teachers, etc in the next few years with all the new costs coming ?
Tax the rich.....

We are on a road and we chose it.....not sure where this leads

[ijusluvit]

Nothing about the current state of bias, distrust, racism, and greed is any different from what has existed since the dawn of man. It isn't worse, as Bucco maintains. It isn't rooted in big business, unions, or in politics. It is the human condition, and it is GOOD that we are reminded of it.

Will anything good come after 112 workers died in a Bangladesh clothing factory fire yesterday? Those unfortunates could not escape a building which had no emergency exits. They made clothing for Wal-Mart and other American companies. It's the kind of incident which happened repeatedly in this country during our industrial revolution, and little was done until the tragic Triangle Shirt Company fire. The 'evil side' of the human condition is so deeply entrenched that it takes enormous attention, outrage, and then resolve to bring about significant change.

Ours is a great country because we have weathered evil, facilitated free speech to focus on it and worked to protect our people from it. Our history of social legislation is noble. We must insist that our government continue that effort. But despite the progress, the essential human condition will not change.

[billethkid]

I know too many people use the word "rich" very loosely. They usually think about the guy who makes multi millions per year.

But just exactly what level of income = being rich?

Or if it is easier to answer....and if the opposite of being rich is being poor, then what level of income = being poor?

There alway was, there will always be the haves and the have nots. In the current phase (being polite) this country is going through it is in style to create class/race/religious/etc distinction for personal gain.
The 24/7 media is the real perprtetrator by continually pumping the class/race/religious subject.

What happened to being happy with what you have? No matter what there is and will always be some one who is either worse off or better off than you.

Money is not the only measure of the status of rich or poor!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Nothing about the current state of bias, distrust, racism, and greed is any different from what has existed since the dawn of man. It isn't worse, as Bucco maintains. It isn't rooted in big business, unions, or in politics. It is the human condition, and it is GOOD that we are reminded of it.

Will anything good come after 112 workers died in a Bangladesh clothing factory fire yesterday? Those unfortunates could not escape a building which had no emergency exits. They made clothing for Wal-Mart and other American companies. It's the kind of incident which happened repeatedly in this country during our industrial revolution, and little was done until the tragic Triangle Shirt Company fire. The 'evil side' of the human condition is so deeply entrenched that it takes enormous attention, outrage, and then resolve to bring about significant change.

Ours is a great country because we have weathered evil, facilitated free speech to focus on it and worked to protect our people from it. Our history of social legislation is noble. We must insist that our government continue that effort. But despite the progress, the essential human condition will not change.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Nothing about the current state of bias, distrust, racism, and greed is any different from what has existed since the dawn of man......

Ours is a great country because we have weathered evil, facilitated free speech to focus on it and worked to protect our people from it. Our history of social legislation is noble. We must insist that our government continue that effort. But despite the progress, the essential human condition will not change.

This statement in bold, above, is what bothers me the most about all this class envy and division being nurtured: Freedom of Speech is not being "facilitated".....it is being killed by the purveyors of class envy!

Those stereotyped and labeled as "The Rich" (and who are also financially set because they are educated to think and work with logic, fact and reality) now are not supposed to speak in terms of logic and mathematical truths/facts as Indydealmaker did with this quote below. And when logic and mathematical truths/facts are silenced, ignorance, irrational thinking, and chaos rule!

Did anybody do the math?

The Hostess CEO that was making so much money that should have gone to the "little" guy was really a bad bad man! He should have worked for free and given all of his salary to the workers.

They each would have seen their lifestyle change dramatically when they invested the $138 per year that they would gain.

[lovesports]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

This statement in bold, above, is what bothers me the most about all this class envy and division being nurtured: Freedom of Speech is not being "facilitated".....it is being killed by the purveyors of class envy!

Those stereotyped and labeled as "The Rich" (and who are also financially set because they are educated to think and work with logic, fact and reality) now are not supposed to speak in terms of logic and mathematical truths/facts as Indydealmaker did with this quote below. And when logic and mathematical truths/facts are silenced, ignorance, no rational thinking, and chaos rule!

Boy Howdy... Oh brother... you sure make many assumptions!!
I have no envy and don't know any of my friends that have envy. No use trying to argue with people who are so far off the topic of the thread.

[BobKat1]

Originally Posted by lovesports

Boy Howdy... Oh brother... you sure make many assumptions!!
I have no envy and don't know any of my friends that have envy. No use trying to argue with people who are so far off the topic of the thread.

I agree.

Yikes! All of this discourse because of no more Twinkies for a while! Someone will scoop up the salvageable parts of Hostess and life as we know it, will go on..

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

This statement in bold, above, is what bothers me the most about all this class envy and division being nurtured: Freedom of Speech is not being "facilitated".....it is being killed by the purveyors of class envy!

Those stereotyped and labeled as "The Rich" (and who are also financially set because they are educated to think and work with logic, fact and reality) now are not supposed to speak in terms of logic and mathematical truths/facts as Indydealmaker did with this quote below. And when logic and mathematical truths/facts are silenced, ignorance, irrational thinking, and chaos rule!

I feel your pain. And the beauty of the passionate discussions of the Hostess bankruptcy is that they can be conducted. There are many places where you would be arrested for expressing such strong opinions.

Sure, the management behavior seems like unbridled greed, and the union's decision to hold fast seems shortsighted, but we are not privy to all the facts. That's why we have a legal system - to sort it out. Our responsibility is to encourage the process, which thankfully we have many ways to do.

[Mr Hanky]

Mismanagement in a nutshell!
Now they will end up in Mexico and exploit the workers there!
Corporate greed and mismanagement is what destroys a company like hosstess.
I do think the bakers union should not of made it so easy for the company though. The company got exactly what they wanted. To loose the union workers and get thirteen dollar a day Mexicans.

[bmarlo767]

Read: Retirement Heist, by Ellen Schultz.
She explains how companies raided the funds.

[graciegirl]

Dear heavens. Neither is right. Why would anyone want a company destoyed? A company that provides jobs? When I was a kid and poor and didn't know it, I was encouraged to work, and work hard and stay after and work and get ahead.

What is the motivation if you succeed? Why work hard all of your life so people who don't want to work 12-14 hours a day (and not paid hourly) look down on you?

Now very few start a job with insurance and matching savings. No person, no group, no idea, no way to do things, no process is entirely perfect. And as for rich and poor, successful by monetary standards or not, there is a little bit of bad in the best of us and a little bit of good in the worst of us.

Glittering generalities and half truths are fed to all of us. Throw them back up. Don't let anyone THINK for you. AND TAKE CARE of YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN. In this country, no matter WHO you are, if you want to be rich, get up early and work hard.

No one OWES you anything.

[ugotme]

To quote Graciegirl: "No one owes you anything!"
How true although today some people want something for nothing.

Unfortunately both sides are ultimately right and wrong at the same time.

I worked for a company that - after repeated attempts to show the workers that money was being lost - steadfastly refused to go back to work. They wanted huge increases. Finally (and honestly) after one final try at explaining the company's position and loss, they refused to keep their current pay scale (no cuts were proposed) and the company was SHUT DOWN!

Not saying all companies are honest but in this case they were.

"Nobody's right if everybody's wrong"

[eweissenbach]

I will weigh in on this and probably won't make any friends in doing so. I am of the opinion that "class warfare" is a concept created by the media which has no real meaning and no combatants. I think most people really are simply looking for fairness.

Many wealthy people think it is unfair that they pay what they believe to be massive taxes while much of the money is, in their view, used for wasteful programs, medicare fraud, foreign aid and yes, welfare fraud. Meanwhile many poor and middle class people think it is unfair that they pay a higher percentage of their comparatively modest incomes in taxes than the wealthy, and they think top executives are overcompensated relative to their value to the good of the company.

On the other hand many wealthy people give generously to charity and have an altruistic desire to help people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances, while many people of lower economic stature really appreciate the people who provide them with jobs and who seem to care about their workers.

Welfare queens are rightly vilified, but so are wealthy people who take advantage of others and don't care who gets hurt in their quest for more fortune or power. Mitt Romney was not disliked by relatively poor people because of his wealth, but, in many cases, because he seemed to speak of them in ways that indicated he did not understand or care about them. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, the late Sam Walton are, or were, all pretty universally admired and in some cases, beloved by poorer people because they seem to understand the concept of fairness and don't seem to flaunt their massive wealth. George W. Bush and John Kerry ran against each other for the presidency and are both multi-millionaires, and I don't recall their wealth being an issue in their election contest.

I think that people think little about class distinctions if they think they are being treated fairly and given a chance. I remember in the small town in which I grew up, the weathiest, most successful business people were usually among the most respected and admired folks in town. In your hometown, successful wealthy individuals remain pillars of the community in many cases. This is a great country with great opportunity for almost everyone, but in some cases the deck is stacked for or against certain people and that is what causes conflict.

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

I will weigh in on this and probably won't make any friends in doing so. I am of the opinion that "class warfare" is a concept created by the media which has no real meaning and no combatants. I think most people really are simply looking for fairness.

Many wealthy people think it is unfair that they pay what they believe to be massive taxes while much of the money is, in their view, used for wasteful programs, medicare fraud, foreign aid and yes, welfare fraud. Meanwhile many poor and middle class people think it is unfair that they pay a higher percentage of their comparatively modest incomes in taxes than the wealthy, and they think top executives are overcompensated relative to their value to the good of the company.

On the other hand many wealthy people give generously to charity and have an altruistic desire to help people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances, while many people of lower economic stature really appreciate the people who provide them with jobs and who seem to care about their workers.

Welfare queens are rightly vilified, but so are wealthy people who take advantage of others and don't care who gets hurt in their quest for more fortune or power. Mitt Romney was not disliked by relatively poor people because of his wealth, but, in many cases, because he seemed to speak of them in ways that indicated he did not understand or care about them. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, the late Sam Walton are, or were, all pretty universally admired and in some cases, beloved by poorer people because they seem to understand the concept of fairness and don't seem to flaunt their massive wealth. George W. Bush and John Kerry ran against each other for the presidency and are both multi-millionaires, and I don't recall their wealth being an issue in their election contest.

I think that people think little about class distinctions if they think they are being treated fairly and given a chance. I remember in the small town in which I grew up, the weathiest, most successful business people were usually among the most respected and admired folks in town. In your hometown, successful wealthy individuals remain pillars of the community in many cases. This is a great country with great opportunity for almost everyone, but in some cases the deck is stacked for or against certain people and that is what causes conflict.

A fair balanced view post.