[NotGolfer]

Aren't the retirement benefits of unions put into a pension fund? Then why was if when the auto factories went out of business folks lost their retirements?? Was it like a ponzi?? Just asking because I don't know. My dad was union but he was born in 1900 so back in those early days of the 20 century...I'm sure unions helped folks get decent wages plus work conditions etc. But that being said...haven't we lost the need for unions? I'm just asking because I don't know. Seems that the higher up management of companies seem to benefit more than the workers in alot of ways.

[skip0358]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

Aren't the retirement benefits of unions put into a pension fund? Then why was if when the auto factories went out of business folks lost their retirements?? Was it like a ponzi?? Just asking because I don't know. My dad was union but he was born in 1900 so back in those early days of the 20 century...I'm sure unions helped folks get decent wages plus work conditions etc. But that being said...haven't we lost the need for unions? I'm just asking because I don't know. Seems that the higher up management of companies seem to benefit more than the workers in alot of ways.

Pension funding requirement were changed. The government changed the amount of funding that was required years ago. You'd be amased how many current day pensions are underfunded and how many have been raided to give bonuses to top Execs.Do a search of pensions,makes for sad reading.

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by Patty55

I just hope somebody takes over making Yankee Doodles.

I want to be on your team Patty.

[lovesports]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

Aren't the retirement benefits of unions put into a pension fund? Then why was if when the auto factories went out of business folks lost their retirements?? Was it like a ponzi?? Just asking because I don't know. My dad was union but he was born in 1900 so back in those early days of the 20 century...I'm sure unions helped folks get decent wages plus work conditions etc. But that being said...haven't we lost the need for unions? I'm just asking because I don't know. Seems that the higher up management of companies seem to benefit more than the workers in alot of ways.

The pension fund is put into investment vehicles and many states and companies lost on the investment.( like any investor) Wall street loves to get a hold of pension funds. Some pension funds were sold a bill of goods by Wall Street.
Many pensions have language that fund can call back pensions if the company "needs" the money or goes bankrupt. That's why many companies and investors like bankruptcy because they make a great deal of money. There has been a very conscience effort to break unions so these shady contacts can be written. Its the high high salaries of the CEO's that breaks companies and wanting to move them to third world countries.
Unions are needed more than ever. Paying workers a decent wage will bring back this economy. Workers and their families spend money everywhere. Keeping workers in poverty and living with benefits cost every taxpayer money.
This company is a prime example of blaming the Union when it was really over the top greed at the top.(CEO's salary) This greed leads them to put their companies in third world countries where workers are slaves. The hell with America.
As was said its not that simple but I can tell you the rich own the media and spin for the rich CEOs.
Many many in the Villages have pensions from the North.
The poorest workers are in the right to work states with no union. (South) These people work hard every day and will always be in poverty (year earnings 15,000)and also need government help to not starve while the top one percent can't spend all they make. Pay cash for everything and will pass this money down to children who will make more money, Rich get richer.
What am I doing on a computer! Must get out in the sun.

[lovesports]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Pension funding requirement were changed. The government changed the amount of funding that was required years ago. You'd be amased how many current day pensions are underfunded and how many have been raided to give bonuses to top Execs.Do a search of pensions,makes for sad reading.

Yes Yes yes. Add that to my comment.

[perrjojo]

Ummmm...anyone remember Braniff Airlines? Probably not...

[KEVIN & JOSIE]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Over the past eight years since the first Hostess bankruptcy, BCTGM members have watched as money from previous concessions that was supposed to go towards capital investment, product development, plant improvement and new equipment, was squandered in executive bonuses, payouts to Wall Street investors and payments to high-priced attorneys and consultants.

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.

Over the past 15 months, Hostess workers have seen the company unilaterally end contractually-obligated payments to their pension plan. Despite saving more than $160 million with this action, the company continues to fall deeper and deeper into debt. A mountain of debt and gross mismanagement by a string of failed CEO’s with no true experience in the wholesale baking business have left this company unable to compete or survive.

And it's always the workers or unions fault. Please !!!

The CEO"S are a higher form of life than the workers...they deserve more....they say so! Have you ever watched Undercover Boss and seen the CEO'S homes? And these are the same ones that will want to take away from their workers to cut costs so they can continue to live their lavish lifestyles. I always say, if you can't earn a living wage....enough to provide for your family, you might as well not work.

[janmcn]

People were lined up for hours this morning in the Tampa area to buy the last of the Hostess Brand items at outlet stores. Most of the people in line looked like they didn't need more Hostess HOHO's. I say good riddance...eat an apple instead. Is this a great country or what?

[perrjojo]

Ummmm, some of you need to read Atlas Shrugged.

[glgene]

Originally Posted by janmcn

People were lined up for hours this morning in the Tampa area to buy the last of the Hostess Brand items at outlet stores. Most of the people in line looked like they didn't need more Hostess HOHO's. I say good riddance...eat an apple instead. Is this a great country or what?

We're talking about 18,000 lost jobs with the Hostess demise. Sure wish they could have worked out a compromise.

I doubt if "Apple, Inc." will be hiring these ex-Hostess employees.

[Bucco]

Hope the admin will allow this. I think it is germane to this conversation.

Whether we like it or not, or even admit to it, this country is now engaged in class and race warfare. This is evident in all walks of life, in all politics.

This mood of class is becoming more and more evident in business as well. Each class does not envy, does not wish to help, does not aspire for the other classes...they just demean them, no matter whether factual or not. We have accepted rich versus poor as an ongoing, never ending struggle and it becomes the basis for labor negotiations now as it never did before.

I surely do not know the answer, but listen.....hear... all the words you hear anymore define you and I as in one class or another...one race or another. We are not fellow countrymen anymore, we are rich or poor, black or white, illegal or not. There is no way to have a "melting pot" when the ingredients that "melt" are engaged in a "War" !!!

It is apparent when all you hear in the news anymore is color, financial status, etc.

THIS IS GERMANE to this discussion and is not meant to be political but what my understanding is of what is happening and it is not specific to labor negotiations

[ilovetv]

Bucco stated the core of this "cancer" growing in our society. I always want to ask, "Just what is accomplished by ENVY???"

If the worker does not like the injustice they see in management crooks getting rich while the workers' income and benefits shrink, why do they stay and insist this is the only job on the planet they can ever do or have for the rest of their lives?

People move all the time to find new jobs and career tracks, and the illegal alien workers are an example of that. If you're lacking opportunities, you have to move to where there is more!

I don't understand people thinking that there is only one job they deserve to have for their whole working lives....under one single employer they loathe. Isn't it up to the worker, also, to take the initiative to find another job or job track if this one stinks?

[Villages PL]

The answer may be that we live in a changed world. People have Televisions and computers and see stories of "the rich and famous". They see, therefore they want. And they're told they should get what they want. Of course a slow economy amplifies their discontent. Is it any more complicated than that?

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by janmcn

People were lined up for hours this morning in the Tampa area to buy the last of the Hostess Brand items at outlet stores. Most of the people in line looked like they didn't need more Hostess HOHO's. I say good riddance...eat an apple instead. Is this a great country or what?

Twinkies were selling last weekend on Ebay for $35 a box, maybe they were resellers.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The answer may be that we live in a changed world. People have Televisions and computers and see stories of "the rich and famous". They see, therefore they want. And they're told they should get what they want. Of course a slow economy amplifies their discontent. Is it any more complicated than that?

That does not change the fact that they are being told they deserve and the other guy is bad and does not change the fact that it has become REAL class warfare in this country.

Trying not to be political, but can anyone recall election coverage ever mentioning so many voting BLOCKS defined by color, creed, sex, sexual orientation, country of birth, etc. ? Never AMERICANS !!!