[Bucco]

Originally Posted by billethkid

The surprise will be what Asaad and the Iranians do when we launch our controlled, measured, limited, hurt no one attack.

We are not only pre-announcing such an action, we are allowing all the time in the world for them to prepare just exactly what and how they will counter attack.

Then the only surprised people will be the pupetered mateurs in Washington.

Watching the hearings today should be an embarassment for any thinking American.

If there are 70-90% of Americans against doing anything then why do the so called representatives need to continue the debate.
Ooops I forgot they did the same thing with Obamascare when 60% of Americans were against it.

If you have strong feelings one way or the other then you are not helping the American system work if you have not contacted your representatives in Wahington........we can at least try to get them to represent us.

btk

It was a bit embarassing, I do agree.....I am really torn.

What was embarassing is how this has been bungled....not sure if I can say ALL...but close to ALL foreign affairs, but this Syria thing. Hearing Kerry say they know, we all suspected, that there were other chemical attacks for which we did not even get upset and did nothing including even condemn them. Hearing him backtrack a number of times about boots on the ground. He DID however come back to it a few times to make a point about no boots, but left me wondering why the intial wandering around. The whole thing is a mess.

I surely would love to say....the heck with it, but I am one who thinks we need to support the President...he may not be the guy I want, but still the President. I think politics was played to get to this point big time and that makes me mad, but I think we still have to support him and he has put his neck out there.

Did you hear, and this was an open hearing, how we have been screwing up the aid and support for the rebels....do you hear Kerry differentiate between the rebels by region ? What a mess this is......to me, it shows you cannot ignore it and hope it all goes away. Next President will need to address the neighboring area which has been ignored. No wonder, after hearing today, that Israel is ticked.....cannot imagine what they will hear in the private meetings.

The last few years have left us so poorly respected that this is something I think we need to do or as bad as it is now, the perception will become worse. What a mess to even get to today.....what a tangled web.

[Hancle704]

in just a few days, but I have to ask if this is a political thread and not permitted?

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Bucco

It was a bit embarassing, I do agree.....I am really torn.

What was embarassing is how this has been bungled....not sure if I can say ALL...but close to ALL foreign affairs, but this Syria thing. Hearing Kerry say they know, we all suspected, that there were other chemical attacks for which we did not even get upset and did nothing including even condemn them. Hearing him backtrack a number of times about boots on the ground. He DID however come back to it a few times to make a point about no boots, but left me wondering why the intial wandering around. The whole thing is a mess.

I surely would love to say....the heck with it, but I am one who thinks we need to support the President...he may not be the guy I want, but still the President. I think politics was played to get to this point big time and that makes me mad, [COLOR="rgb(244, 164, 96)"]but I think we still have to support him and he has put his neck out there.[/COLOR]

Did you hear, and this was an open hearing, how we have been screwing up the aid and support for the rebels....do you hear Kerry differentiate between the rebels by region ? What a mess this is......to me, it shows you cannot ignore it and hope it all goes away. Next President will need to address the neighboring area which has been ignored. No wonder, after hearing today, that Israel is ticked.....cannot imagine what they will hear in the private meetings.

The last few years have left us so poorly respected that this is something I think we need to do or as bad as it is now, the perception will become worse. What a mess to even get to today.....what a tangled web.

Speaking broadly and generally, yes, we should support the president regardless of whether he was our choice in the election. BUT, when it comes to specific "decision points".....our nation and constitution are centered on a system of separation of powers, and the system of checks and balances:

"Checks and balances
To prevent one branch from becoming supreme, protect the "opulent minority" from the majority, and to induce the branches to cooperate, government systems that employ a separation of powers need a way to balance each of the branches. Typically this was accomplished through a system of "checks and balances", the origin of which, like separation of powers itself, is specifically credited to Montesquieu. Checks and balances allow for a system based regulation that allows one branch to limit another, such as the power of Congress to alter the composition and jurisdiction of the federal courts." (See specific powers for Legislative, Judicial and Executive branches at: )

Separation of powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, the separation of powers and checks/balances are there to make the elected officials accountable to the people. Right now, if 8% of respondents are for attacking Syria, and 92% say "Stay OUT of it", for the president to go forth on his own (alleged, debatable) authority and against the vote by Congress, his actions would be ignoring and circumventing the will of the people expressed thru their representatives who debated this very day in the senate committee, with for example Sec. of State Kerry (respresenting the administration) debating Sen. Paul (representing the people in his constituency). I think the vote of Congress must stand and not be ignored by the executive branch.

[gomoho]

Think it is more of a global issue than political, but why do you feel the need to stir the pot in that direction? People are sharing ideas and fears in a respectful manner about an issue that affects you no matter what side of the street you walk on. I for one appreciate the opportunity.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Hancle704

in just a few days, but I have to ask if this is a political thread and not permitted?

I don't think there's much if any "political" combativeness here on this particular topic. To me it's a much-needed discussion of CIVICS.

[PennBF]

When a member of the Foreign Relation Committee asked how long it will take for the UN to examine the usage of chemical gas Kerry responded it would take about 3 weeks for the UN to provide proof so there would be universal knowledge of the answer. Then the Member of the Committee asked would they be able to tell whether it would identify if it was the Syria Gov't or the rebels and the answer was no. It would not be possible to determine who used the gas. Net: is we will not know if this was an act by the rebels to draw the US in or an act of the Syrian Gov't. Yet, with all of this lack of knowledge there are movements to put our young people in harms way and some officials want to do it to "protect against the government being imbarassed because of their word to attack based on the red line statement." Again: No proof who used the gas, want to do it to show we will stand by an early nonsense statement, not an attack on the US, etc. Why would we ever go to war based on these conditions. I left out that it is a conflict to protect the rebels who may be more against the US and set up worse potential for attacks on the US and may be the ones who started this. What a great strategy to make it look like the Syrian Gov't used gas as that is the best and fastest way to get the US to get involved and protect them . What an ungodly mess. At the Foreign Relations Committee meeting Kerry said "he could not take boots off the ground forever..!!

[wendyquat]

In light of all this discussion, I trust everyone has contacted your congressmen and voiced your opinions!

[billethkid]

throughout this thread there has been good discussion and expression oe personal views and opinions on Obama seeking congressional approval.

There have been some refernces to waiting until congress gets back and isn't that too long to wait, etc.

Here is a link to two contrasting videos of Obama this week, the first one stating he did not create the so called "red line". The second one when he did in fact specifically create the red line to be crossed with military options at his disposal....

Obama: 'I Didn't Set a Red Line' on Syria | The Weekly Standard

.OVER A YEAR AGO!!!!!!

And now we sit waiting weeks and months after the chemicals have been used......really?

btk

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by billethkid

throughout this thread there has been good discussion and expression oe personal views and opinions on Obama seeking congressional approval.

There have been some refernces to waiting until congress gets back and isn't that too long to wait, etc.

Here is a link to two contrasting videos of Obama this week, the first one stating he did not create the so called "red line". The second one when he did in fact specifically create the red line to be crossed with military options at his disposal....

Obama: 'I Didn't Set a Red Line' on Syria | The Weekly Standard

.OVER A YEAR AGO!!!!!!

And now we sit waiting weeks and months after the chemicals have been used......really?

btk

BTK....I share your frustration on this. The road to get where we are today is loaded with so much lack of interest and mis judgement, it is difficult to get by what some folks would call political. I call the last weeks actions political for sure...I call the prior action or inaction to be..well, wrong.

Speaking in the arena of foreign affairs, I do not understand what our policy is, or what we are doing. From yesterdays hearing, I do not think many understand. We have gone from imminent bombing to congress making the call (that is what I referred to earlier as political), in hours actually. If we and our congress are confused..think of the world. We have gone from ignoring prior chemical attacks to needing action now....we are still stumbling, as they referred to during the hearing, on even getting help to the rebels, and we still are unsure about who those rebels are.

If you read, the world is confused by what is our policy and that is a recipe for disaster on a international scale. It is, to me, as if we just woke up and discovered what is actually going on in the world.

The move to congress was purely political in my mind...the policy is muddled, at best, but I do think we need to pass something and support the President. Hopefully if we get through this, he will begin to listen to those who understand the world and develop a foreign policy that makes some sense to us and the world.

I guess I am saying that I, for what it is worth, am against this action because as defined it makes no sense and the route to get here is so fuzzy and mixed up along with the fact that a NO vote will create more political rancor here at home, which I suppose was the intent.

Therefore, while I am against this kind of bombing (McCain makes more sense to me), I think we should be aware that our rep worldwide is and has been hit hard and to not support the President would just make that worse.

[ilovetv]

Some excellent, knowledgeable points explained here in this video interview, by Amb. John Bolton....mainly that the central problem is more with Iran and its nuclear weaponry than it is with Syria right now....and other critical considerations:

VIDEO: Amb. John Bolton 'On the Record' | Gretawire

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Some excellent, knowledgeable points explained here in this video interview, by Amb. John Bolton....mainly that the central problem is more with Iran and its nuclear weaponry than it is with Syria right now....and other critical considerations:

VIDEO: Amb. John Bolton 'On the Record' | Gretawire

Good interview.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, I am more in McCains camp here. What a limited strike as I heard defined yesterday in the hearings, and what the President described, will do is well beyond me.

We often talk about the Islam thinking....do you not believe that a "limited" strike on them is like making a bad face...it will accomplish nothing. Assad is still in power, perhaps hurting a bit, but the war continues....all others in the regions say...oh, as Bolton said in the interview "Is that all there is"....and become emboldened even more. These folks have known nothing in their life but bombing and death.

I can only imagine, and have read a few things, about what Israel is thinking about our foreign policy or lack thereof. I cannot recall the poster who said it about our foreign policy but whomever it was used a word that seems to fit....naivety.

[ilovetv]

I cannot recall the poster who said it about our foreign policy but whomever it was used a word that seems to fit....naivety.

Yes......and vast "inexperience".

[billethkid]

deleted by me

[Radioman41]

This is serving as a great diversion from other problems and scandals. The media has stopped talking about Obmacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, NSA, sequester, quantitative easing, and the spending level.

[jblum315]

Hello, it's done deal folks, Like it or not