[graciegirl]

Golly, golly, Miss Molly.


There are red herrings all over the place in a lot of recent posts.


I learned to understand the term "red herring" from Rubicon just recently. Love this forum.


Bottom line is that we don't need more carts during the next three months. Cars can be driven here from Stonecrest 24/7. Cars make more traffic, and make things more dangerous, but they aren't on the cart paths, clogging things up MORE. Cars are much more protective of the people inside.


Bottom line is if ya wanna drive on our golf cart paths than live here. Bottom line is that.


Bogie....You know I respect you. Don't you agree on some level????

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

This whole Stonecrest golf cart access thing has gotten blown out of proportion.

It has been reported that fewer than 50 people regularly cart from Stonecrest into The Villages area. I have also been told that there are actually no more than 500 carts in Stonecrest. The Villages has more than 50,000. Not much of additional wear and tear. But if there is a legal concern regarding a precedent involving liability, then that should be more important that a handful of people having their access restricted to The Villages by golf cart. They are free and welcome to drive their cars.

As far as "outsiders" using The Villages amenities, those true amenities for which we pay are not easily available to non-villagers. They cannot use the pools, golf courses and rec centers without showing ID. If they attempt to do so, they should be deterred by regular "stop and frisks".

Yes, Gracie. My two cents worth.
The above post sums the issue up very well. As Steve has tried to do before.
However, posters have and will continue to debate the issue, hundreds of posts many being repititious and adding nothing.
Then just when the dust settles along comes someone ( guessing a non-resident) stirring things back up with a new thread.
And lo and behold we now have our congressmen involved in making sure people can drive their carts to the doctor's office.
The SILLY SEASON continues.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Yes, Gracie. My two cents worth.
The above post sums the issue up very well. As Steve has tried to do before.
However, posters have and will continue to debate the issue, hundreds of posts many being repititious and adding nothing.
Then just when the dust settles along comes someone ( guessing a non-resident) stirring things back up with a new thread.
And lo and behold we now have our congressmen involved in making sure people can drive their carts to the doctor's office.
The SILLY SEASON continues.

Always refreshing Bogie. Thank you sir.

[billethkid]

isolated whines being treated as an overall condition when it is not.

Don't most of the neighboring communities welcome us and anybody else to use their streets to get to their restaurants or use their streets to get to their golf courses which they are happy to let us use??? Those trips represent revenue of one sort or another.

Having our neighbors use "our" multi modal paths to frequent "our" businesses and restaurants is no different.

Nobody has suggested they come in and use "our" golf courses or "our" restaurants.

The more successful "our" businesses are the better for those of us who live there.

Nothing new here that isn't done in any town, city, village, etc.....except for the few minority positions which we all duly note.

btk

[graciegirl]

Hmm. Just thought of something. WE can drive our golfcarts to Stonecrest and play on their course, but they can't drive their golf carts here to play on our courses.


What do you think is gonna happen?

[DaleMN]

Anybody watch the Hatfields and McCoys?

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by DaleMN

Anybody watch the Hatfields and McCoys?

My thoughts exactly So far no guns involved .................

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by billethkid

isolated whines being treated as an overall condition when it is not.

Don't most of the neighboring communities welcome us and anybody else to use their streets to get to their restaurants or use their streets to get to their golf courses which they are happy to let us use??? Those trips represent revenue of one sort or another.

Having our neighbors use "our" multi modal paths to frequent "our" businesses and restaurants is no different.


btk

Bille, I totally disagree with you on this one. Everyone loves the Morse business model that built this community and so many want to change it into something one wouldn't recognize in a few years if they could all implement their changes.

Almost all retirement communities have pools, club houses, entertainment, rec centers BUT what they don't have is full golf cart access for which you and I and everyone living in The Villages pay a premium. You are willing to open the borders to allow everyone to use their golfcarts on our paths; what a can of worms that would be. First and foremost would be security, how easy would it be to glide into The Villages in an electric cart and wreak havoc.

You and I have to get in our cars to patronize businesses beyond our borders here, why is that such a stretch for Stonecresters? (Who, BTW, have gates and can keep out carts other than their own.)

We'll see what happens, many of us won't stay to find out how fast things go down hill if all outside communities are given access to the paths.

[donb9006]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

With regard to the "outsiders" who do not pay amenity fees or "belong" in The Villages.......I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.......


In hindsight, whether the "outsiders" are tourists from another state, visitors from another country, or just local folks from another 55+ retirement community who chose differently for their own personal reasons (thinking differently is not inherently right nor wrong), good citizens welcome folks to their "town". Good citizens are hospitable.


Having left New Jersey in 1970 for a more rural and tranquil place to raise our family, we have put up with decades upon decades of tourists who clog our roads and our Main Street during the summer months , plus the autumn months of September and October with their huge recreational vehicles or homes away from home bus type large r.v.'s. We put up with it.


They bring in revenue to our town by eating in our restaurants, shopping in our craft shops and retail establishments and touring our museums and monuments. We are the "Gateway to Vermont" and a popular stop before they head over the mountains or north to Lake Champlain. Not only tourists stop here or weekend here, but the parents of the kids who go to our two colleges in town do visit here.


We put up with bumper to bumper backed up traffic from one end of town to the other end of town as they come in and then exit..........it's not a highway, just a narrow road with a caravan of huge R.V. buses.


Merchants and business owners are HAPPY to see all of these visitors; it dropped off a bit after 911......but a lot of the past visitors to Vermont chose to relocate here, believe it or not. We still get plenty of tourists.


Out of staters perceived us to be a safe haven following the horrors of what befell New York City and the aftermath of fear.


Many of these out of staters bought property in our Green Mountains and weekly "come down into town" and would stop in our store. We didn't tell them they "didn't belong" or that their cars were blocking parking places on Main Street that a local family might use. When my husband retired, all of these "mountain transplants from the city" brought him nice gifts and said they'd miss him. We had been city folks once ourselves as well.


We also get summer visitors. All summer long. They are also welcome; as Vermonters love to share the beauty of the Green Mountain State with all of these tourists; they bring in revenue to our small state.


In the winter time we get the rich executives with their snow bunny trophy girlfriends heading for the ski slopes.......they stop in our town to eat and shop. We also get the young ski enthusiasts from N.Y. and N.J., likewise heading for the mountains and the snowmobile trails..............


From my perspective...........it does not seem hospitable to complain so much about a handful of residents of a neighboring 55+ retirement community, of which many here have said they are actually friends of.

O.K. I do get the golf carts on the golf trails or paths.

BUT, what about all of our Vermont out of state tourists with those big oversized R.V.'s on our narrow town streets and winding mountain roads???? A lot bigger than a golf cart, I'd say.


We might gripe a bit when it's slow going trying to get from one side of town to another, but we would never become hateful nor insulting to these visitors who supply the livelihood of many in our town. Mostly, we stay "in" over the Columbus Day Weekend or other times we know they will be here enmasse..........or we find ways around the congestion.


We simply put up with it. They are really all nice people. When we had our store, all of these travelers would stop in, buy a Vermont item, ask where to go for lunch or dinner...or whatever. Our staff was always hospitable. That's the word.......hospitable.


Definition:
treating visitors well: friendly, welcoming, and generous to guests or strangers agreeable: pleasant, agreeable, and providing what somebody needs to live comfortably



p.s. Florida tourists were a large portion of our visitors; they'd come in the summer months. Not everything nor every business is air conditioned in Vermont and when we get a "heat wave" in the 90's it might last for a week.......so naturally, they'd all be complaining about the heat and humidity.........and not stating , "We didn't realize how HOT Vermont is".


Funny when I now think about it. So, it takes all kinds.


I'm sure there are many Villagers who realize that those who visit as a renter in TV do have to get a guest pass from the owner of the home they are renting.........we had one and never even used it as our home had a pool under the birdcage. So, for everyone who is abusing this "amenity" thing, there are others spending money in TV and NOT using a single ammenity.


Plus we used our automobile primarily to go everywhere as the air conditioning was more comfy to go long distances in to view the various villages, which was our main reason for staying; to see all the different villages. Only a few times did my husband (and then our son and his wife) use a golf cart path or tunnel........just around where our rental home was. All the other times we took the car to go out to a restaurant, etc......as we had the baby.


I believe in the old saying, "Live and let live".......plus be hospitable.


God only knows that Vermonters have had to be hospitable to lots of folks from away.


Plus, everyone WE MET IN THE VILLAGES DURING OUR VISIT was super hospitable.
I'd say the complainers about the golf carts from Stonecrest are in the minority.




　

You've missed the point. People come to the villages to USE "our" things and then they go home. People visiting your old town spent the night, ate at the restaurants, bought gas and supplies. The "visitors" here are just taking advantage of what others built and then going home. Has anyone been asked when at a "villages" restaurant whether you were a resident or not? They may eat here occasionally, but most of the time, they come, use, and leave. Completely different.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by donb9006

You've missed the point. People come to the villages to USE "our" things and then they go home. People visiting your old town spent the night, ate at the restaurants, bought gas and supplies. The "visitors" here are just taking advantage of what others built and then going home. Has anyone been asked when at a "villages" restaurant whether you were a resident or not? They may eat here occasionally, but most of the time, they come, use, and leave. Completely different.

As a Villager, I am glad people visit our commercial establishments. Without them we would not have as much as we do.
These places are really not just "ours".

[Villages PL]

When all the motels and inns are full and Vermonters offer their rooms to tourists, how much do they charge? How much do they have to get to make up for the inconvenience of having strangers traipsing through their house and upseting their daily routines? I imagine it must be a hefty sum!! In that case it's not so much friendlyness as it is a chance to make a quick (tax free) buck.

Nothing against Vermonters, it's just human nature for people to do this and I have heard about it happening elsewhere.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

When all the motels and inns are full and Vermonters offer their rooms to tourists, how much do they charge? How much do they have to get to make up for the inconvenience of having strangers traipsing through their house and upseting their daily routines? I imagine it must be a hefty sum!! In that case it's not so much friendlyness as it is a chance to make a quick (tax free) buck.

Nothing against Vermonters, it's just human nature for people to do this and I have heard about it happening elsewhere.

There may be some who try to take advantage of tourists - but we are talking about Vermonters - and they are a kind and charitable group of their own ilk. Have spent much time visiting Vermont and I know from personal experience that they are friendly and welcoming and not adverse to what you describe as 'inconvenience' when it comes to helping someone. Fact - the folks I have come to know there are every bit as genuine as our senior citizen.

[Xavier]

I think the original poster (OP) finally has convinced me - the OP should feel comfortable and satisfied with the feeling tone of the community in which he/she choses to live. I believe that Stone Crest would be a wonderful choice in OP's particular case.

As someone with a little money actually invested in The Villages and it's amenities (including the golf paths), I'm very happy with the gate situation as it is. I welcome all of my friends from all of the other various communities to partake of all of the entertainment, shopping and activities that are are open to all of the non-residents. Our quality of life is better because of them.

Xavier

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

There may be some who try to take advantage of tourists - but we are talking about Vermonters - and they are a kind and charitable group of their own ilk. Have spent much time visiting Vermont and I know from personal experience that they are friendly and welcoming and not adverse to what you describe as 'inconvenience' when it comes to helping someone. Fact - the folks I have come to know there are every bit as genuine as our senior citizen.

Appreciate that.......the feeling is mutual. You've traveled a lot and understand the differences in many regions, thus having a frame of reference and judgement......."the faculty of being able to make critical distinctions and achieve a balanced viewpoint; discernment"......and I thank you for your intelligent posts.

When we first came to Vermont in 1970, from N.J., it was truly a "different world".

Our "inlaws" in Jersey told us we were not living in the "real world". I think they were jealous as they'd drive up every weekend to stay with us. Go figure. I felt like I was running a hotel...first with a two year old and soon with a new baby......plus every weekend a house full of guests.

The native Vermonters were not as talkative as our birth state's residents; they'd size you up silently. Back then they lived very simple lives and were very self sufficient as far as providing their own food (whether through gardening, hunting, fishing, etc.) and the gatherings we attended were definitely not akin to what we left behind in N.J. We adjusted.

There was no Jewish deli or Italian restaurant.....just plain and simple food at the A&P. There was no Chinese take out restaurant. I went to church in a dress and heels and soon realized the rest wore hunting jackets, wool plaids and jeans. We adjusted. I kept two wardrobes for my children....one to wear in Vermont and one for visiting N.J.

We adjusted and soon enough learned that our adopted neighbors were indeed the salt of the earth and as you say, friendly (in their own quiet ways). This is why Vermont always drew us back "like a magnet" on the two occasions we briefly left. It was "home".

Our own children were truly raised in a "Leave it to Beaver" kind of small town atmosphere and home life.......totally alien from our city childhoods.

A Vermonter's handshake means something. Their "word" means something. They do not intrude on their neighbors lives.......that's for sure........but they are there when and if they are needed. We truly miss all of our dear departed Vermont friends and neighbors. The end of a wonderful era.

You don't have to "sign a contract" or give a deposit prior to having work done. A hand shake is enough. When we returned from Florida twenty years ago, our car passed with that of our Town Selectmen, a longtime neighbor of ours........he rolled down his window and welcomed us back, had heard it through the grapevine.....didn't demean us for leaving or returning and said he would just put our names BACK ON THE TOWN VOTING LIST. We didn't even have to go down to the town hall in person. Definitely a simpler life.

Aside to Villages PL......yes, I'm sure the ones providing lodging for the stranded motorists/tourists to Vermont when there was "no room at the inn", were doing it for extra money...........as they needed that extra cash , no doubt, to pay their winter heating bills or pay their property taxes. No ulterior motives.

Some were just more hospitable and enjoyed hosting. Vermont was not a "smokestack industry" kind of state, so if you weren't a dairy farmer, sweater mill worker, apple orchard owner, teacher or in health care, artisan, merchant, jobs were scarce. Not only did they take in "guests" but they tapped the maple trees and did seasonal type chores to get extra money for their families.

This may sound weird nowadays, but back in 1973, after we had spent one year on Florida's east coast, missing the four seasons, the apples, the crisp autumn weather, etc........and the SNOW.......believe it or not, we decided to move back to Vermont.........my husband traveled back and was going to scout out Chelsea, Vermont a place we had just read about in "Vermont Life Magazine"......while I stayed behind as our daughter was in kindergarten at Patrick Air Force Base in Satellite Beach Florida and our son was a toddler.

(Once our kids were in school, from first grade through high school graduation, plus University of Vermont, we stayed put in the same Vermont neighborhood).

Anyone who has been to central Vermont knows that there are very few places to stay as far as motels, lodging, etc. This goes for our state capital as well; only a handful of motels and when they are filled for sporting events, graduations, etc. there is no place to stay...........unless one had planned ahead. Thus, nowadays, the huge influx of monster bus R.V.'s on our narrow winding country roads.

The rest of the state is not much different, unless one is visiting Burlington where the university is. Even now, rooms are scarce in our town of 16,000 population. It never changes; the 16,000. Our educated kids leave for the cities and out west; the newcomers come to replace them.

Getting back to husband's trip to rural Vermont, since the 1970's are a long long time ago.........I don't recall how he was put in contact with this elderly woman, but he was........she offered him a room in her home in Randolph Vermont (home of Vermont Technical College).......Randolph is a tiny town we'd pass through enroute to Northfield, Vermont where Norwich University is.......I recall it had a great Ben Franklin (five and dime type store)......very quaint. Very very quaint. Florida doesn't do quaint like Vermont does.

Anyway, when he returned back to Florida and us.........he was so impressed with the hospitality of this old Vermont lady........she served him dinner every night and included a few of her old lady friends, who thoroughly enjoyed having the company of a young "late 20's" male guest in the house. He was clean cut, well dressed and didn't look like "Jack the Ripper". He was there to look at real estate, so out of the house during the day.

One dinnertime she served him artichokes as an appetizer course (in her lovely Victorian dining room) which he didn't have a clue how to eat........she showed him. Not sure if her instructions came in handy later in life, as I've never prepared artichokes.

Now, here was a single widowed elderly lady, living alone, and she wasn't afraid of my husband. Obviously, times were different back in the decade of the 70's. Vermont was different. It remained safe and idyllic for many decades.........only most recently getting this "drug lord stuff" coming up from the cities. Since profiling is illegal, I will not go into detail on "WHO" is bringing the drugs up to Vermont nowadays. So, the constant snide remarks about Vermont are ill called for. Our "problems" are all NEW and very alien to the type of "lifestyle" we had grown accustomed to....

My mother and stepfather even moved up from N.J. to retire in our town and when my mom would get home from a senior citizen center bus trip she'd see our monument and always tell me, "I am so happy to be back in GOD'S COUNTRY". She loved Vermont and was able to be independent and safe up into her mid 80's, passing at 91 , after living with us for a long time due to her Alzheimers, and at rest forever in her beloved Green Mountain "adopted" state. Ditto for my stepfather. They have a panoramic view of the Green Mountains from their resting places; a country cemetery.

When we go to the cemetery to clean their grave, we see all of our neighbors and friends and the long time Vermont residents born and bred here. There is a sense of continuity up here. We truly grew to respect the simple ways of the native Vermonter. New Hampshire folks and Maniacs are much the same.
Ditto for across the border in New York state.

The Chamber of Commerce would place a notice in our daily newspaper, asking if anyone would be willing to host stranded tourists for the Columbus Day weekend in October, as our few motels would fill up very quickly.

Whatever "method of checking out these people" that the Chamber did.......I do not know. But, I think they could discern a normal family or couple "leep peeping" vs. dangerous criminal types, which never even entered someone's thoughts in those days..........

One of our young neighbors back then, whose mom was a child model for Norman Rockwell, illustrator, who had a studio in Arlington, Vermont......would tell me how her parents, once the five kids were gone......would open their big farmhouse to these "leef peepers" and I never heard of them being afraid or bothered. The gentleman is a great "historian of Vermont lore and history" and former town council member.........our friend's parents enjoyed hosting the "tourists to Vermont". Nothing fancy. Just a typical Vermont farmhouse.

Sometimes, hikers on the Appalachian Trail , passing through Vermont, also get "taken in" if weather is inclement.

We don't have a lot of "nightlife" or exciting things up here, such as Disney World, so those who toured Vermont, for the most part, either wanted to experience the beauty of the mountains and fall foliage or in other seasons, to have a peaceful "escape" from the cities.

After 911, many flocked up here from the N.Y. Metro area to relocate and raise their families.

Alas, times have changed.........and everyone now should be careful and diligent in discerning what strangers they might let enter their homes........no matter where they live.

Vermont was a GREAT PEACEFUL BEAUTIFUL STATE in which to raise our family and we have lived here for 44+ years......most of it in the same neighborhood at the top of the hill on the outskirts of town next to the apple orchards with mountain views surrounding us and out our front windows.

As anyone ages, their old bones and joints crave the warmth and the sunshine........and since Florida was our chosen vacation state for most of our 48 years of marriage, we have explored it from coast to coast and up and down..........and chosen it for our final destination, even though we moved to Florida twice, once at age 27 and last time at age 49 once our kids were out of college and married....but had our new "baby", my mom, in tow. Long story.

Now the time is right. Life is what happens when you are making other plans.

But still, we do have a loyalty to our adopted State of Vermont, having enjoyed it for 44+ years out of 68 and do not care to hear it maligned....or my statements taken out of context.......if truth be told. If I can "read between the lines" and discern what people are meaning to say.....I can't see why my words are often misconstrued.

No place is perfect. But there is a perfect place for various stages of our lives. No matter where we come from. Diversity enriches one's perspective on life and believe it or not, the city mouse can learn to appreciate the country mouse's way of life.

My understanding of all the interesting intelligent posters on this TOTV is that they are "coming from their own life perspective of the way things are or could be". I find all of the varying viewpoints most interesting to read and ponder. Everyone's opinion is valuable. Or should be.

Nothing is cast in stone. Non residents' comments shouldn't be misconstrued, even if only by a "very few". I do get a laugh out of the ones who tell us not to come. Very territorial.

Everyone has been a "stranger in a strange land" at one time or another.
Imagine the feeling if the local residents told them "not to come" or "to go back"....

Or couched their hidden meanings in cryptic writings....

However, the kindhearted ones who are authentically kind and genuine, surely outweigh the very few who are not. This pertains to all of life. Not just TOTV.

It is not hard to discern the truly genuine and authentic souls.

The Villagers we met in person were all wonderful and kind people; no doubt they never posted on this site.....or perhaps even heard of it. Everyone seemed contented. We had a very warm safe feeling during our month + visit as "strangers in a strange land". We have chosen to stay.

God willing .........based on if our home sells, that is.

We have tons of snow on top of ice on top of snow........pretty...a true winter wonderland.......but thinking spring. Happy holidays to all.............
...........and to all a good night.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Or couched their hidden meanings in cryptic writings....

However, the kindhearted ones who are authentically kind and genuine, surely outweigh the very few who are not. This pertains to all of life. Not just TOTV.

It is not hard to discern the truly genuine and authentic souls.

You are a kind and loving woman, and I think you will not change your views much when you join us here. BUT YOU might change them a little on this issue when you truly own property here.


I think that this issue is NOT overwhelmingly important...except for the fact that it will set a precedent that will affect us more adversely in the southern areas of TV and in so doing, increase golf cart traffic everywhere inside our town.


Correct me if I am wrong that I read that Fruitland Park was allowing Golf carts on their streets JUST in the last six or eight months, and I have to think that was in anticipation and hopes that the Dairy Farm inside their RECENTLY ADVANCED city limits would become part of The Villages and also part of Fruitland Park. Which could potentially be a huge bunch of folks as Fruitland Park will grow homes adjacent and contiguous to The Villages boundaries and could be a LOT of new golf cart drivers allowed on our paths with all that entails.


I think it is an advantage for others to use the businesses here and keep them going, but I really don't think we need them as much as we used to. But ALL of them can still get here by car. ALL that have cars, and most do.


I think most of us who live here are very hospitable and kind and welcoming and warm and genuine.....but not stupid.

I think that The Morses have good sense in these matters. AND excellent lawyers.