Are you saying truth and honesty is not important, that lack of even understanding our inability to know truth is not serious ?

Not trying to paint you in the corner, but actually surprised you side with a poster who simply makes accusation, and never offers anything for discussion. Attacking the poster does not get to the point, does it ?

I fully realize that the viewpoint of both of you is skewed, and surely mine is as well. I think itimportant, no vital, that no matter all feelings should be based on truth, not lies....on understanding facts, not simple accusations.

I don't think that you would paint me in a corner nor would I do it to you. The point is I am inclined to use my powers of intuition based on past practice and statements and observation and with no link, a newspaper report or other Concrete proof side with Mrs. Gracie in the little give and take you had with her. Maybe next time it would be that I side with you. See I'm considerably younger than many people who live in The Villages and I cherish my friendships with the people who are Senior to me, the ones I've met and the ones I mix it up with on here. There are many ways of a person coming to a conclusion as far as the truth goes. I made mine the way I saw fit. I have nothing at all against you Mr. Bucco and I call you that out of respect nothing more, no wisecracking like I normally do. You have a lot to offer and I am a student, so teach. I'm listening.

Truth to me is easily identifiable when it is an eyeball to eyeball conversation. In type or television news I have my favorite channel to get the news and then I watch the enemy channel to see their point of view. Don't tell anybody but occasionally I think the enemy is correct and my primary channel has blown it. I'm into reality, not head games and no psychoanalyzing others, it's not my yob man.

I love the truth but putting people on cross-examination throughout life isn't really living to me which is why the first thing I thought of was Why So Serious?

Overview - Citing sources - LibGuides at MIT Libraries

Would whatever sources you get for your ideas get past your favorite high school teacher? College professor? Newspaper editor? Nun?

I will respond to just two things in your post. Not shying away, but two things you say cause my reply. If you feel I am shunning what you say, let me know.

First your comment on watching the "enemy channel" is telling. Not sure how a channel can be described as enemy, and not knowing your favorite channel, hard to comment. First of all, if you are getting your news on a "channel", I feel you are short changing yourself, assuming you speak of cable.. most of cable "news" is simply opinion and all skewed. To really get news and understand it, you must read.

Now you say you are younger, so that reading might get old for you ������, and that bothers me. Young people are basically lazy and dependent on social media or whatever is easier, not necessarily accurate.

Which brings me to "why so serious" ....my strong opinion is that the OP understands..with "fake news" (whatever defines that TODAY) we have either lost the definition of truth and don't care, or we believe, not in truth and facts but something else.

Either way, it is serious...very serious. To be led by lies is getting in line for serious consequences. You cannot name a statesman or leader up until recently, that did not believe that the American free press is one of major reasons for our greatness. Now, we attack the press for reporting instead of the issue being reported....

It is deceptive and dishonest to preach how evil the free press is because they report accusations reply, but it is negative....ACCURETLY, BUT NEGATIVE. If we turn our hearts from what is true, and follow not the issues, but a person or a specific ideology. Well, I am turning 80 in June.....I lived and worked with and for great men, great journalists, and learned that the road we are in at present....to demean our press, our hero's, anyone that might feel differently or be of a different pursuation, we are courting weakness and destruction.

I hope you learn how the present situation, on both sides, is weakening our great country. Well, hope you don't learn, but realize it. Read history and what we were founded on...as you said the "enemy channel" sums it up...you want to hear what you want to hear, True or not, and that's a problem. The truths, as said in our constitution snout certain, is self evident and no one man or group can change that, but the will and can change the direction of your country well before you get as old as I.

No more rambling, but attack the issues, not the messengers as we do today, and search for truth, instead of accepting lies, as easy as that may be.

Be happy, being honest should not change that. Be patriotic, demanding truth instead of lies should serve that well. Don't demean those who disagree, respect and talk with respect to them.

So, search for truth and honesty does not lessen joy, fact is it should give you more freedom. This chaos today, this is not good

The World Wide Web didn't exist when I was in High School. Wikipedia's founder was only 10 years old when I was in High School. The co-founder I believe was only 12 or 13.

Cable TV had I believe - 30 channels total, HBO hadn't been invented yet and MTV still had a few years to go before its first music video (The Buggles: Video Killed the Radio Star).

We had old 1940's and 1950's newsreels, textbooks, radio, and network TV. We had Childcraft and World Book encyclopedia sets. That was the bulk of our knowledge base.

We had such limited access to information, compared with only 10 years later, that the question has no relevance at all.

I know a lot of great grandmothers, grand fathers, aunts, uncles, etc. in the Villages who help their high school or younger students with their home work at times.

So. This still applies especially if you have been in a library in the past few decades.

I was walking around with a friend a few years ago and we were discussing her daughter's Bibliography for her big writing assignment.

The problem is that something you may view as an absolute truth may not be to others and that is not an issue of morality as you like to paint but just a matter of interpretation. I believe that in many instances (like the Covington teens) there are more sides to the story than what is presented. People base their decisions not on a lack of morality but on a different way of processing data or where they were raised or what their current life situation is or a multitude of other reasons not necessarily because they are amoral. I just find your posts too judgmental. Yes there is evil in the world but there are many good people also who just want to get along.

I was the one who posted the video from Cincinnati.com that cleared it up. My post was removed and I was absolutely furious. I ordered myself my first political shirt ever. It says "I stand with Covington Catholic". I haven't had a reason to wear it but it makes me feel good to see it in my closet.

Re: The subject getting away with lies
 

Obviously it is not just the subject who lies. We cannot get into politics on this website. But, a major issue today and in the past is the agenda of the news source.

Perhaps, a safe historical FACT was the Spanish American War.
The war was actually caused by the press. The SCREAM was remember the Maine. The paper reported that the battle ship Maine was torpedoed and we went to war. The TRUTH was that the ship blew itself up due to improper fire control and ammunition storage.

Ahh....just for fun, yes....fun.
The Liar Paradox
Star Trek - Liar Paradox - YouTube

Steve

I can understand your view point....

1. Covington source was a homemade video posted on social media, NOT NEWS. News folks cleared it up. Just to be straight on that. Was not a journalistic venture....but social media which is where we can source much.

2. Without making this to go into a area of P which is out, let me just say......what we are being told in many cases by both sides of the equation is flat out not true. IF you follow whatever way, you are being misled. It affects a lot of us. I realize you think I am speaking of only one way but that is not true at all, although simply because of the pulpit available, most is. IF YOU VOTE ON ISSUES, which I do, and not personalities, then you are misled if you follow either side without searching for facts. From the pulpit is mostly lies from the other is mostly wishy washy platitudes and you think about it for even a second, you know that to be true.

You can attack me all you want......at lease I am alive to fight back....you can go into other threads and talk about me, but do me a favor.......discuss the issue......what example is there that you have that did not emanate from a social media homemade video that hows the media is lying which is the subject of this thread.

I was also upset at the Covington thing but also upset at attacks on our country and its institutions. If you wish to dwell on something that started with a home video and was only on the media because of internet trolls, that is your right. There are nasty, idiotic and hate filled videos on the internet right now which are disgusting. There are hate statements made each day, which represent our country as they travel around the world.

Anyway, if this is now going to be about the Covington story and that used to proclaim the media as biased and bad.........well, I find that just plain stupid. That is a desperate attempt to change the subject.

YES, we all process date differently....FOR SURE, but my wish is that we process the same date and then discuss how we arrived at our position. We do not do that EVER it seems, and do not want to gt into details because I think this thread is important if we stay on subject.

Those who are claiming the media lies or distorts, I ask you for examples and never get them. If Covington is your answer which was a social media event, well we will never agree. i, PERSONALLY, need truth on budgets, foreign policy and such things.

I seem to remember that even though the video may have first popped up on social media, it was not the only bad reporting that took place over the situation. In fact, one news source that you state as NOTHING but truthful at all times participated in unverified and erroneous reporting regarding this incident along with other news sources as well. Not sure how you missed that part of the story. The ending of the story, as you put it, occurred much later after these news sources practically destroyed the reputation of what appears to be a very decent young man.

Lots of that went on in history and before we had what we have today for data. Lost a friend on the Thresher and still has mysterious reasons...that happens for sure.

I am simply amazed how folks come on here and stretch their assets to find some fault with our free press. Never saw anything like it but I assume you folks have a reason for that (other than social media bursts on facebook)

Just a few, and the tip of the iceberg I think.
The mainstream media’s lies, and the liars behind them - The Horn News

That's all I'm going to get involved in in this "discussion". I will get banned. I am showing damn good restraint with this.
Steve

You must have missed a lot going on with the Covington situation. Your posts totally confound me that you didn't see or read the erroneous reporting that occurred over this situation by the media. It is readily available from many sources by just googling it. You are right in the sense that they "cleared it up" but not after printing and airing one-sided, inaccurate information for quite some time. If that's what you call good, honest reporting then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. JMHO but everything out there media-wise is suspect as to whether or not it is truthful. To claim that certain sources are never wrong, never "lie", or are never biased just seems foolish to me.

Access Denied

The Horn News - Media Bias/Fact Check

All have comments on THE HORN NEWS, and who still are pandering the Clinton sex ring at the Pizza Parlor.

This is news to some and at my age, I just should give up...we are doomed believing such crap from such crap sources

You're funny!
Steve

Totally agree. My point entirely.

Still with the social media.

I have been asking directly for an example of media lying...I mean real media..for quite some time and a social media farce that was certainly mishandled by all is it. That is your basi ?

You don't understand you say..,I do not understand....

1. The desire to attack our own media with such a mean spirited attack.

2. The desire to embrace the same media source that you personally called vicious names, but embrace it because it agreed with you.

3. The Need to attack when questioned on why there are attacks being made and accusations being made. You would think you might have actual facts to back up personal and vicious attacks.

4. The ignoring of American citizens of criminal activity at our highest levels, and factually enabling them and applauding them. (By the way, such activity reported and called fake all the way to prison)

5. The attack on media because they want to talk to the issue, and you want to attack them for questions you.

You is generic in every case.

///////:

Truth Be Told
 

- - -

For me, the problem with media today...not social media, but alleged journalistic media,..is not so much that they lie, but that they relate stories with such extreme bias. They try to pass off editorial reporting as true journalism, which IMO it absolutely is not.

NEVER give credence to any news that starts out( "We have learned from reliable sources.....")

Even history books get it wrong. To wit: Columbus did NOT discover America. We celebrate Columbus Day every year in the United States, though he never set foot on this continent. His first journey with the Nina/Pinta/Santamaria in 1492 took him to the Bahamas, which was already inhabited. The second one was a return trip. The third was to Trinidad, which again - was already inhabited. His last trip was to Panama.

And yet, we were taught in grade school that we celebrate Columbus Day, because Columbus discovered America. 1) he never set foot in NORTH America, which is the only America implied by the statement, when you're teaching kids in North America about Columbus discovering America. 2) he didn't "discover" anything; these places had already been inhabited by other people.

That's just one fact, yanked out of a myriad of facts we learned in history books in grade school.

Which proves my point, use the brain that the good Lord gave us and investigate. BUT that doesn't mean that the press "is the enemy". Thank goodness that we have the press. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Exactly. I never said the press was the enemy and I certainly wouldn't want to see it go by the wayside by any means - not my point at all. I would feel the same way whether it was a neighbor, friend, or anyone else feeding me information. Just because they say so doesn't mean I might not be a little skeptical - in other words, trust but verify.

Bottom line, truth can not always be found by one means only such as by reviewing one set of facts or even by doing extensive research at times. Common sense, intuition, knowing the past history of the source, and/or actually being there or knowing someone directly involved must factor in. You know the old saying, there's 3 sides to every story. If you're not taking into consideration all 3 sides most likely you will not have all the facts. And since you brought Him up, only the Lord knows the whole truth and on this earth it's quite likely we never will regarding every situation. We weren't meant to.......:icon_wink:

Good topic, jebartle, but unfortunately the inability for some to keep politics out of almost any conversation will probably send it into the TOTV toilet sooner rather than later.

Bingo! When I hear that statement it immediately raises a red flag for me to just not listen at all. Withholding the source of the information automatically discounts my ability to evaluate any legitimacy to the claim.

And your tagline certainly seems to fit right into this topic and should remind all of us of the importance of keeping an open mind -

"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it."

Henry Kissinger

We must also search our souls and discover where the bias really exists, it might, just might originate with ourselves. Can't say it enough, investigate and fact check, too many lies given by those in authority.
not necessarily the press, imho.

ABSOLUTELY! :boom:


In the book; 'Despotism for Dummies,' the first chapter implores the importance of trying to discredit any press... that is less than fawning toward the wannabe Despot. :ohdear:

Nailed it again! :thumbup:

It has become all the rage of late, to not even bothering doing a modicum of research if a piece comports with a persons 'confirmation bias'...and doing even less research if it refutes what you believe.

Oftentimes facts ARE facts (and not just an opinion/bias by the writer), but it is the obfuscation and/or attempts at spinning what those FACTS mean...whereby the problems ensue.

One can't but shake their heads when actual facts (such as absolutely known timelines/procedures), are misstated...and people actually start believing these misstatements/outright lies. :oops:

Simply amazing. :ohdear:

About half of us in this country think the main stream media are biased.

Many of us wish that we would hear and read just the "hard news" and not an interpretation or an opinion of what happened.

The way journalism is taught in college has had a filter down effect. Many people will turn off the evening news because of obvious bias from all three news networks. (NBC, ABC and CBS) I was switching to David Muir away from NBC because for awhile the line up and the presentation was fairer (to me) but then a couple of months ago that changed.

It is very hard to find and absorb what is really going on because we are being exposed to a biased menu which is just fine for about half of this country.

That is my opinion. I am glad I live here in The Villages. I like how the majority of people think. They are old and wise.

Fewer Americans rely on TV news; what type they watch varies by who they are

In viewing the last several posts, it's a darn shame the direction this discussion is heading. It doesn't have to be. I'm sure many have kept away from this thread for that very reason. I think the OP could have led by better example by steering away from politics, not right into it. But now it seems that was the agenda after all. :ohdear:

Over and out here.............I've got better things to do, like NOTHING. :icon_wink:

Maybe, just maybe, we can assume (and yes, I know how to spell it) we are getting insight into your bias????

:bigbow:I totally agree!
Plus way too much pontification!

Now. Now. Now. That goes both ways.

I know Abby. She is an intelligent, very well educated medical professional with a kind and very fair way of looking at things. Her name isn't Abby. She is just about ready to retire and hopefully join us full time here in The Villages.

:agree:


I would also add that claiming something, in hopes of getting closed a thread that has become uncomfortable for some...is something we've seen many times previously.


TRUTH/FACTS...often being the impetus for that.

It appears some are ignoring the OP's plea to keep politics out of this thread. More posts have been deleted this morning. We are sensitive that some may try to force closure of a thread they don't agree with, but further political posts may result in closing the thread.

Moderator

Which means what to the thread subject.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO ACCUSE AN INDIVIDUAL OR A GROUP LIKE THE MEDIA OF ANYTHING, IT SEEMS THAT SOME SORT OF BACKUP SHOULD BE REQUIRED.

Unless you are saying that certain posters speak and we all should listen.

It seems very easy to simply attack sans any facts.

This thread was a discussion of honesty and lying.

Suddenly, it veered away to discussion of a YOUTUBE video shot not by media but a private individual....which then as was intended veered us to an area not to be discussed.

Lets not forget that the OP was dismayed by the lack of honesty by ANYONE, and lying by ANYONE especially what you see reported

Somehow the LIARS became entangled with those reporting the lying and that is not what this thread is about, at least from my perspective.

When media reports a LIE and documents it, how is that the fault o the media.....are they not to report that and what reason is there not to report it ?

You must have missed the point where I said the thread topic was a good one. You both seem to assume too much. I've never thought much of assumptions. Probably because there's 50-50 chance you're going to be wrong and I'm not much of a risk taker. Besides, talk about a good way to cause strife and division. I mean you want truth, right? So why make assumptions? Very confusing to me.

A thread will not be closed because of anything I post. Believe me, I'm not that important around here. Personally I would much rather see it get back on track so it doesn't......