[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix

So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

By saying I believe you to be wrong is an example of how political correctness in speech is destroying a free society?

Given the possibility I may be wrong, asking for examples is destroying a free society?

I don't understand your point.

First there is a difference between typing WRONG and wrong. Second you made a judgment as me being wrong before I even gave and example. If you definitively say I'm wrong then there is no reason to give any example. This is exactly what the left uses to suppress thought. PC is just more then words, its attitude toward the user. The San Bernadino CA. event happened because the neighbors were afraid of being labelled racist. There are girls and boys, men and women. However Girls is an acceptable term today. If you use it you will be called a sexist or anti women. Communications is the most important part of solving any problem and every word even the 4 letter ones have a use under certain circumstances. To limit words is to limit thought. To ban words by some is to limit another's freedom of expression. I may not like your wording but I defend your right to say it, even to armed conflict. Some where along the line a group has decided that you just don't listen if your offended, but label the user negatively and demand they stop using the word. That's tyranny not freedom of thought. This has spread to the point on campuses where violence is being used to suppress speech. In history these are the beginning steps to domination of the society by tyrants, like Hitler, Stallon, Mao. Freedom comes with risk and at times being offended.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

What I believe you are saying is it is wrong to impose certain words that may or may not have had different connotations in the past.

For example, my old high school football team name was changed from The Crusaders to The Bulldogs. PC and dumb? Maybe? Well, maybe not to the influx of Muslims in the school district. Did it hurt anyone to change it? No. Would a Muslim boy want to be a Crusader? Doubt it.

Go with the flow and remain kind and generous and we have a great life.
Anyhow, PC language is ridiculous at times - but it is not going to cause the downfall of America.

Thankfully my high schools teams were named the Hornets. I hope that designation stings no one today.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Steve9930
PC and being courteous and respectful are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is suppression of speech. PC is about controlling your thoughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who believe your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. It's a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promote this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

WRONG!

If, however, you believe what you said is correct, give some examples of political correctness speech is the first step in destroying a free society.

I am surprised that this thread has gone this far without someone mentioning George Orwell's novel 1984.

More than simply a novel, this book, published in 1948, was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching, where both the thoughts and the behavior of citizens are controlled by the government.

Start with the employment of the principal character in the book, Winston Smith. He works for the Ministry of Truth in the History Section, where he is daily called upon to destroy historical documents and write a "new" history. There are echos of current claims of "False News" or "Alternative Facts" that we hear about daily.

In this fictional region called Oceania, there are four ministries. 1. The Ministry of Truth - Dedicated to propaganda and altering historical documents. 2. The Ministry of Love - Dedicated to Law and Order by use of brutal physical and psychological force. 3. The Ministry of Peace - Dedicated to war efforts. There is never a global war; just little regional wars that are always breaking out. People who were our friends are now our enemies, and vice-versa. 4. The Ministry of Plenty - Devoted to rationing because everything is in short supply.

The story line of the novel is not the main point of the book. Rather, the separate discussions of the functions of the Ministries are the real point, although many people fail to read this part.

The discussion of the activities of the Ministry of Truth is most directly related to this thread on TOTV. In this, Orwell discusses in great detail how government control of the elements of discussion (Political Correctness) achieves control over the thinking of the citizens. He gives the example of how it becomes impossible for citizens to contemplate the overthrow of the government because they are not even able to think in those terms.

To the extent that free-thinking citizens submit to Politically Correct speech, they are surrendering their freedom, and are on the path to destruction of a free society.

----------------------------------------------------

The Constitution of the United States does not protect its citizens from being offended, nor does it limit offensive speech.

I do not go out of my way to offend people, nor do I use derogatory terms for ethnic groups. But, among terms that I have no problem using are "Illegal Aliens" for foreigners who are in our country illegally, and "Indians" for the peoples who were in America when the first Europeans arrived. Columbus did not call the natives "Indians" as an insult, but rather because he thought he had reached India.

Do yourself a favor and read 1984.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...

I respect your command of gobbledygook and dancing around a question.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix

I respect your command of gobbledygook and dancing around a question.

Well as we used to say in the computer industry, "garbage in; garbage out".

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by Steve9930
PC and being courteous and respectful are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is suppression of speech. PC is about controlling your thoughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who believe your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. It's a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promote this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.


I am surprised that this thread has gone this far without someone mentioning George Orwell's novel 1984.

More than simply a novel, this book, published in 1948, was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching, where both the thoughts and the behavior of citizens are controlled by the government.

Start with the employment of the principal character in the book, Winston Smith. He works for the Ministry of Truth in the History Section, where he is daily called upon to destroy historical documents and write a "new" history. There are echos of current claims of "False News" or "Alternative Facts" that we hear about daily.

In this fictional region called Oceania, there are four ministries. 1. The Ministry of Truth - Dedicated to propaganda and altering historical documents. 2. The Ministry of Love - Dedicated to Law and Order by use of brutal physical and psychological force. 3. The Ministry of Peace - Dedicated to war efforts. There is never a global war; just little regional wars that are always breaking out. People who were our friends are now our enemies, and vice-versa. 4. The Ministry of Plenty - Devoted to rationing because everything is in short supply.

The story line of the novel is not the main point of the book. Rather, the separate discussions of the functions of the Ministries are the real point, although many people fail to read this part.

The discussion of the activities of the Ministry of Truth is most directly related to this thread on TOTV. In this, Orwell discusses in great detail how government control of the elements of discussion (Political Correctness) achieves control over the thinking of the citizens. He gives the example of how it becomes impossible for citizens to contemplate the overthrow of the government because they are not even able to think in those terms.

To the extent that free-thinking citizens submit to Politically Correct speech, they are surrendering their freedom, and are on the path to destruction of a free society.

----------------------------------------------------

The Constitution of the United States does not protect its citizens from being offended, nor does it limit offensive speech.

I do not go out of my way to offend people, nor do I use derogatory terms for ethnic groups. But, among terms that I have no problem using are "Illegal Aliens" for foreigners who are in our country illegally, and "Indians" for the peoples who were in America when the first Europeans arrived. Columbus did not call the natives "Indians" as an insult, but rather because he thought he had reached India.

Do yourself a favor and read 1984.

Great insight Carl. Will this become a self fore filling Prophesy? Will fiction become truth? Only time will tell.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix
So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

Originally Posted by manaboutown
Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix

I respect your command of gobbledygook and dancing around a question.

Perhaps manaboutown didn't recognize President Obama's statement about his poor bowling skills and identifying with the limited skills of participants in the Special Olympics........... which many considered very offensive.

OR...... he simply wouldn't address the question directly.

[ColdNoMore]

Some of y'all crack me the heck up.


NO ONE has stated that you shouldn't be able to use whatever words you want...or that they be made 'illegal.'


Some of us are simply saying, that you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words.


It really is...as simple as that.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix
So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

Originally Posted by manaboutown
Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...



Perhaps manaboutown didn't recognize President Obama's statement about his poor bowling skills and identifying with the limited skills of participants in the Special Olympics........... which many considered very offensive.

OR...... he simply wouldn't address the question directly.

I was indeed unaware of Obama's comment. It was of course very offensive. Thank you for posting this information, Carl.

[Nucky]

I'm serious, it is great to read what everyone has posted in this thread. I never had a chance to consider such things in my work life. It was survival of the fittest in deed and word and anything went. It was touchy sometimes. I wonder if PC is different regionally speaking?? The reason I mention that is people we have encountered in Florida are so reserved and not in your grill like in New Jersey, New York and Philly. Not one mean spirited word spoke to us since we moved here. Written words have been rough from time to time but normally from people from our neck of the woods.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Some of y'all crack me the heck up.


NO ONE has stated that you shouldn't be able to use whatever words you want...or that they be made 'illegal.'


Some of us are simply saying, that you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words.


It really is...as simple as that.

The issue is not that certain words might be made "illegal."

It is that by adhering to Political Correctness certain words are made "unacceptable." Or as YOU say, "... you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words."

And, as demonstrated in the novel 1984, this can lead to "Thought Crime" under the rules of "New Speak." Newspeak is a controlled language, of restricted grammar and limited vocabulary, a linguistic design meant to limit the freedom of thought—personal identity, self-expression, and free will. This can lead to enslavement of the minds of an entire population.

Congratulations, as an enforcer of New Speak, you have become a member of the Thought Police.

1984 is worthy of reading and serious contemplation.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

The issue is not that certain words might be made "illegal."

It is that by adhering to Political Correctness certain words are made "unacceptable." Or as YOU say, "... you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words."

And, as demonstrated in the novel 1984, this can lead to "Thought Crime" under the rules of "New Speak." Newspeak is a controlled language, of restricted grammar and limited vocabulary, a linguistic design meant to limit the freedom of thought—personal identity, self-expression, and free will. This can lead to enslavement of the minds of an entire population.

Congratulations, as an enforcer of New Speak, you have become a member of the Thought Police.
.

My subtle (and quite clever, if only I think so ) luring statement had its intended purpose, as you've just been ensnared by it, contradicted yourself...and proved me correct.

You're trying to equate a fictional novel, whereby incorrect thoughts/speech are actually 'illegal'...and are therefore punishable as a 'crime.'
'
Whereas, as I plainly stated (or at least I thought it was pretty plain )...no such thing exists in in this great country.

Soooo, your poor attempt at equating George's story as one that parallels our current society...is totally off-base and not even close.

Meaning of course, the only ramifications of continuing to use those words/phrases/statements that show a complete lack of manners and decency, will only invoke and earn ridicule/lack of respect/disgust...NOT any type of judicial action.

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

1984 is worthy of reading and serious contemplation.

Methinks you may want to read 1984 again.

Maybe better luck next time though.



Deepest Sincere Wishes:

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

My subtle (and quite clever, if only I think so ) luring statement had its intended purpose, as you've just been ensnared by it, contradicted yourself...and proved me correct.

You're trying to equate a fictional novel, whereby incorrect thoughts/speech are actually 'illegal'...and are therefore punishable as a 'crime.'
'
Whereas, as I plainly stated (or at least I thought it was pretty plain ops)...no such thing exists in in this great country.

Soooo, your poor attempt at equating Goerge's story as one that parallels our current society...is totally off-base and not even close.

Meaning of course, the only ramifications of continuing to use those words/phrases/statements that show a complete lack of manners and decency, will only invoke and earn ridicule/lack of respect/disgust...NOT any type of judicial action.


Methinks you may want to read 1984 again.

Maybe better luck next time though.

Deepest Sincere Wishes:

Well, no.

The point of my original posting was that Political Correctness was a precursor to an era predicted by Orwell. Not that I was, in your words, "...equating Goerge's (sic) story as one that parallels our current society."

In fact, my exact words in my original post stated that the book, "...was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching." (Please read my posts with precision.)

We are not yet at the point in the USA where some words and attitudes are illegal, BUT......THEY ARE IN CANADA. In addition, they are illegal in Denmark, France, The Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Germany, Russia, Ireland, Sweden, and Finland.

Mexico now treats homophobic slurs as unprotected speech. You cannot be arrested for such speech, but you can be sued.

South Africa's new Hate Crimes bill forbids “prejudice, bias or intolerance” on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, gender identity, etc. (It’s a long list.) It also calls out those who “stir up violence against or bring into contempt or ridicule” anyone on the basis of their beliefs or occupation — that includes government officials. Political cartoonists are particularly targeted.

I have not contradicted myself. I have merely pointed out that with the acceptance of Political Correctness of speech our culture is moving toward the one predicted by George Orwell, who was, by the way, an Englishman, and the novel 1984 was depicted as taking place in Socialistic England. Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania.

You really should read it.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Well, no.

The point of my original posting was that Political Correctness was a precursor to an era predicted by Orwell. Not that I was, in your words, "...equating Goerge's (sic) story as one that parallels our current society."

In fact, my exact words in my original post stated that the book, "...was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching." (Please read my posts with precision.)

We are not yet at the point in the USA where some words and attitudes are illegal, BUT......THEY ARE IN CANADA. In addition, they are illegal in Denmark, France, The Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Germany, Russia, Ireland, Sweden, and Finland.

Mexico now treats homophobic slurs as unprotected speech. You cannot be arrested for such speech, but you can be sued. 6

South Africa's new Hate Crimes bill forbids “prejudice, bias or intolerance” on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, gender identity, etc. (It’s a long list.) It also calls out those who “stir up violence against or bring into contempt or ridicule” anyone on the basis of their beliefs or occupation — that includes government officials. Political cartoonists are particularly targeted.

I have not contradicted myself. I have merely pointed out that with the acceptance of Political Correctness of speech our culture is moving toward the one predicted by George Orwell, who was, by the way, an Englishman, and the novel 1984 was depicted as taking place in Socialistic England. Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania.

You really should read it.

Fiction often becomes reality. While others may think you are incorrect to think a fictional novel will become a reality only need to look at what is acceptable today versus 50 years ago. PC culture is as dangerous as any other limiting idea which strives to limit personal expression based only in secular wisdom.