[SHIBUMI]

Hi,
Capitalism has proven to be the best economic system in the world. We are in fact better off then people in any other country as large as ours. The problem is, as any economist will tell you, the result of rampant capitalism is socialism. When the workers of a country are getting abused some social programs are needed to stabilize the situation. examples, minimum wage laws, social security, unions. We have in fact looked to other parts of the world for cheap labor, as our labor is no longer cheap, and cheap labor is the coal that stokes capitalism. So we don't make anything anymore. We have become middle men for their products. Cheap labor has long been abused and still is, it's just not our people. My point here is that we have to accept some social programs so that capitalism won't disappear leaving total socialism and military rule like in many other countries. The trick is the right social programs. All thoughts are welcome..........

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Hi,
Capitalism has proven to be the best economic system in the world. We are in fact better off then people in any other country as large as ours. The problem is, as any economist will tell you, the result of rampant capitalism is socialism. When the workers of a country are getting abused some social programs are needed to stabilize the situation. examples, minimum wage laws, social security, unions. We have in fact looked to other parts of the world for cheap labor, as our labor is no longer cheap, and cheap labor is the coal that stokes capitalism. So we don't make anything anymore. We have become middle men for their products. Cheap labor has long been abused and still is, it's just not our people. My point here is that we have to accept some social programs so that capitalism won't disappear leaving total socialism and military rule like in many other countries. The trick is the right social programs. All thoughts are welcome..........

OK, I’ll bite. If all the immigrants coming into our country (many of which are entering illegally) aren’t filling the country’s need for cheap labor, then why the hell don’t we close the borders?

[fdpaq0580]

While I think this could be interesting, the potential for turning political is immense. I'll keep hands off, thanks.

[SHIBUMI]

no guts no glory............it's all about economic philosophy only

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

no guts no glory............it's all about economic philosophy only

Oh, I am going to follow this. Even if politics rears its ugly head, it will be interesting.

Baiting the hook. See if I get a bite.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

OK, I’ll bite. If all the immigrants coming into our country (many of which are entering illegally) aren’t filling the country’s need for cheap labor, then why the hell don’t we close the borders?

Should we, could we?

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

no guts no glory............it's all about economic philosophy only

I’ve never yet heard a theory put forth by a distinguished economist that there hasn’t been an equally distinguished economist there to tell the first economist that he/she is absolutely no clue.

Everything is relative. My father told stories of times when earning enough one day to feed the family the next was an accomplishment. I’d say that the number of Americans who have had to face that reality in the past fifty or so years is nearly nonexistent, yet the outcry from our “oppressed” workers probably eclipses that in the 1930s several times over. We pay people not to work by assuring that their unemployment “benefits” total more than they’d earn—lifesaving health care is available free of cost to anyone needing it—poverty is not defined by not having the money to purchase shoes but not being able to afford the newest and fanciest smartphone. We have created a class in this country not of the poverty - stricken or even the needy, but of the pampered and the entitled. And Joe Taxpayer gets to support them.

I was the trials endured by 1930s Americans that made them arguably The Greatest Generation. America today has no such mountain to climb, and thus no route to greatness or reason to achieve it.

[Luggage]

We make plenty of things here from underwear and to autos .

[La lamy]

I like capitalism that lets people believe hard work will lead to well deserved pay, but I have an issue with capitalism that leads to grotesque greed. It's ironic that some supposed "God fearing/loving" people don't think "what would Jesus think?" before amassing more than needed and leaving their employees in the dust of misery. That's where I believe unions and regulating governments are absolutely necessary.

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Hi,
Capitalism has proven to be the best economic system in the world. We are in fact better off then people in any other country as large as ours. The problem is, as any economist will tell you, the result of rampant capitalism is socialism. When the workers of a country are getting abused some social programs are needed to stabilize the situation. examples, minimum wage laws, social security, unions. We have in fact looked to other parts of the world for cheap labor, as our labor is no longer cheap, and cheap labor is the coal that stokes capitalism. So we don't make anything anymore. We have become middle men for their products. Cheap labor has long been abused and still is, it's just not our people. My point here is that we have to accept some social programs so that capitalism won't disappear leaving total socialism and military rule like in many other countries. The trick is the right social programs. All thoughts are welcome..........

You are right. We had close to unfettered Capitalism at the end of the 19th Century, and while there were Capitalists with lots of capital who got rich, it was a very small part of the population, and the lack of “safety nets” caused a level of suffering for the working class and below that is rare today. In the 20th Century, Capitalism was bridled by the laws you mention. The effect was that the Capitalists stayed rich, but nearly everyone else in the country has a much higher standard of living than we would otherwise have had. Virtually every retired person in The Villages is here because of Social Security, pensions from businesses and the military, union membership, mutual funds letting little folks participate in business investments, government guarantees of savings, Medicare, supplemental health insurance, selling houses that we bought decades ago elsewhere, price supports, and much more. All of these keep Capitalism from being as powerful (and dangerous) as it could be, but they make it possible for all of us to participate in the blessings of Capitalism and even call ourselves Capitalists, even though we aren’t as the word was used in 1890. We could call this Capitalism modified by Socialism, but I’d rather call it something like socially-responsible Capitalism. Many countries have that, and the proportions vary, but wherever it happens, it seems to offer the greatest happiness for the greatest number.

[Sandy and Ed]

Originally Posted by Luggage

We make plenty of things here from underwear and to autos .

…..and please…don’t forget pillows and car mats, you know, all that hi-tech stuff

[Blackbird45]

Capitalism / Socialism - This country is a mix of both. Pure capitalism centers around money which leads to the ruling class. Socialism is to share the wealth and those who decided who deserves what becomes the ruling class.

[Blackbird45]

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A PROBLEM

How do you combat this problem. A majority of the people who enter this country come for a better life, to achieve this they need a job. Instead of punishing these people you punish the people who are knowingly hiring them. Make the financial punishment so punitive that it is not worth the risk of employing illegal immigrants. If there is no work, they will not come.

Now the question, how do you go about this. We do have a system in place which utilizes the use of the social security card. The problem is this is antiquated and needs to be brought into the 21st century. I believe this task can be achieved in two and a half years and at a much lower cost than a wall. I have a credit card in my wallet, I make a purchase at my local supermarket, by the time I get home I receive an email notice not only telling me where I made the purchase, but also the amount that was spent. I have a handy person come to my home, they pull out a scanner, they swipe my card, and the payment is made within seconds. This is the technology that has to be adopted by the social security system.

[Blackbird45]

IT WILL TAKE FOUR STEPS TO SOLVE THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM:

1. Employ the services of the credit card company to replace our flimsy paper card with plastic, a chip, a strip and possible photo. The company that takes this on will be given 1 year to complete this task, with financial incentives for early completion.

2. Once these cards are up and running, all working citizens of this country and people here on visas will be given one year to obtain their new card. These cards could be assigned at the social security offices, post offices or maybe even in states DMV offices. When a person obtains their card, they will enter a personal pin number. After the year this new card will be the social card of the country.

3. At the end of the year of obtaining new cards. A new phase will start where all employers will be given six months to scan the cards of their existing employees. If any of the employee’s cards are rejected, they will be given one month to resolve the issue. If the issue is not resolved in this time period, their employment will be terminated. At the end of the six months all new applicants will be scan if their cards are rejected, they will not be hired.

4. If any employer is caught using workers that have not had their cards scanned, the employer will be fined $15,000 per worker. Though this might seem to be excessive you are trying to cover three objectives. First is reducing the number of undocumented people within our boarders. Second to increase the amount of tax dollars collected by the government, legal workers are not taxed. Third to protect the workers themselves, illegal workers are usually underpaid and abused. These fines will be divided into two amounts, 1/3 of the total fine going to the government to enforce legal immigration and 2/3 of the total fine for anyone who reports this violation to the authorities.

[Blackbird45]

EXAMPLE:

Jose illegally crosses the boarder and secures a job from farmer Gray. when he gets out into the field, he meets another who has entered the country like himself. He also meets an illegal Canadian who has overstayed his visa and an American. Jose decides instead of working all summer for less than minimum wage he will call the authorities and turn in farmer gray.

Immigration sends all three illegal workers back to their respective countries.
Once the case is adjudicated Jose receives a check for $40,000.

You might question why $40,000 since there were only three illegal workers. Farmer Gray was fined for not scanning the employee’s cards, not because he hired undocumented workers. the American was working off the books. Billions in tax dollars are lost every year due to unreported employment. Eventually it will become cost prohibitive for restaurants, farmers, hotels, landscapers and golf courses to hire undocumented worker and people off the books.

Many will see it as putting the onus on an employer. The fact is these people should not be considered employers, but people who are aiding and abetting a criminal act.

Many will see it as putting the onus on an employer. The fact is these people should not be considered employers, but people who are aiding and abetting a criminal act.

Many will see this as anti-immigrant. The fact is this is pro-immigration. Once this pool of illegal undocumented workers dries up, it will be employers that will be demanding the country expedites legal immigrations. Legal immigrations will be a benefit for everyone.