[tucson]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Oh, really???

The daily Opening Prayers said by ministers, priests and rabbis in the House of Representatives, since 1774 no less, DO indicate God, the Bible, and religion ARE connected to these "legalities"......

"Opening Prayer U.S. House of Representatives

06/18/2013
Reverend Brad Hales

Lord God, maker of Heaven and Earth, I thank You and praise You for the blessing of this day. I thank You for our country. I thank You for the laws and government which You instituted for order and honor, and I thank you for our active military and veterans who have sacrificed over and over to make us free.

Father, as a Nation, as individuals, and as a government, we must repent and always come back to You for truth, wisdom, forgiveness, and hope. Let us follow Your words from the Prophet Joel: "Return to the Lord Your God, for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love."

I pray all these things in the powerful and the authority–filled name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Amen.
--------
First Prayer of the Continental Congress, 1774

The Prayer in the First Congress, A.D. 1774

O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!

Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

Amen.

Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.

Opening Prayer Archive, Office of the Chaplain

First Prayer of the Continental Congress, Office of the Chaplain

Amen AND Amen!! Thank you, "Ilovetv" :-)

[zonerboy]

If you type in bold , does that make your post more true than other posts? How about bold underlined?
Just wondering.

[Here2Stay]

Originally Posted by mflasch

Today was yet another example of the social and moral decay in this great country. It is not the first thing that indicates we are heading down the path to disaster and if won't be the last. Our kid's kids are being conditioned to accept what wrong in the past and the line between what is right and what is wrong continues to get blurry.
What next?

I had to say this, usually I don't care what others say, but the moral decay you speak of comes from the kids left behind from broken marriages in this country, many left in foster care, or just plain left to defend for themselves. Please before you judge others on what you call moral decay, look at what has happened with those who don't take marriage serious! Don't blame moral decay on one group of people!

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by zonerboy

If you type in bold , does that make your post more true than other posts? How about bold underlined?
Just wondering.

Typing posts in bold may be analogous to the SCREAMING indicated by typing emails in all capital letters. Personally I tend to ignore the driver behind me at a traffic light who lends new meaning to the word "nanosecond" with his or her honking the instant the light turns green. Similar, IMO....

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by zonerboy

If you type in bold , does that make your post more true than other posts? How about bold underlined?
Just wondering.

Dunno. Maybe the Supreme Court needs to rule on that, too, to determine if the words not in boldface are "victims of discrimination" and not treated with equality.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I wonder if this was the basis for the Crusades, mostly against the Moslems, the cry for one of which was "Kill them all; God will know His own!" And kill they did!

However, among the Crusades was the Albigensian Crusade, involving the killing of Christians: men, women, and children as well. These were the Cathars, who sought a return to the true principles of Christianity: "perfection, poverty, and preaching."

Albigensian Crusade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm inclined to agree with those posters who differentiate between the loving acceptance of all by Jesus—and a Church with a historic violent approach to dealing with other human beings who don't follow "the party line."

I guess gays and lesbians are among those who don't follow that "party line" in the eyes of the Church and its adherents....

And still, given all the quotes of chapters and verses, no one is able—or willing—to say WHICH Bible is the "True Word of God" ... and thus which Bibles are not....

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

No reason for the violence of the crusades which actually went on for hundreds of years to surprise anyone, God destroyed all life on the earth except those few he chose to save and he will do it again when he says it is enough and time shall be no more. Many have died for the glory and purpose of God including John the Baptist being beheaded and Stephen was stoned to death.

It wasn't raining when Noah started to build the ark yet he followed his faith and did what God had instructed him to do.

Numerous places I am able and willing to state and have stated, The King James Version of the Holy Bible translated into English in 1611 is the true word of God. The New Testament was translated from Greek, the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew text,

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Here2Stay

I had to say this, usually I don't care what others say, but the moral decay you speak of comes from the kids left behind from broken marriages in this country, many left in foster care, or just plain left to defend for themselves. Please before you judge others on what you call moral decay, look at what has happened with those who don't take marriage serious! Don't blame moral decay on one group of people!

And why do you think this moral decay has happened? Are you not judging these that don't take marriage seriously and have broken marriages?

It's all cumulative and it's all part of the direction the country has gone and no one can figure out why yet ignore everything being said.

We've changed, eliminated, given up, or sacrificed just about everything in this country to cater to the wishes of special interests of one kind or another yet we still cannot see the forest for the trees and remain wondering what has happened and is continuing to happen to our country and why we are all seeing more struggles.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by zonerboy

If you type in bold , does that make your post more true than other posts? How about bold underlined?
Just wondering.

How about some color too?

What difference does it really make and why should/does it matter?

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

************************************************** ********


God, God's Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same. If the stories in the Bible scare anyone then so be it for they were included for the purpose of changing people. If we read the Bible we know that GOD, JESUS, and THE HOLY SPIRIT are in harmony and total agreement. To think we can pull out one as being different from the remaining two just emphasizes our lack of understanding the Bible

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

It is clear many have been led off in numerous directions with the ever increasing number of different carnal interpretations of the Bible and false teachers which are numerous in the world today.

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (KING JAMES VERSION)

The Bible is not carnal but must be read and understood spiritually. It can only be truly understood when read in the spirit with a desire to understand.
To think we can be inspired to lead a Christian way of life is also a great error as we must serve God as we found him in Spirit and Truth.

As stated before we are just getting used to darkness as first sodomy was an illegal act in every state and was slowly made legal, abortion and killing of the unborn and even the born has been made legal and now our latest great accomplishment. Our supreme court has become ineffective and has lost the ability to make proper decisions or to even allow the will of the people to decide for themselves. God's final judgement surely cannot be far in the future as we are no doubt way down in the evening of time.

Genesis 6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

You have proved my point. I thank you for comparing how pre Jesus text was so violent and unjust. The DOMA decision by the court is in support of the message Jesus brought us. Unfortunately, when it helps to support prejudice people will reach around Jesus and pull out some old testament statements that do not apply today. Like it or not, Jesus amended the BIBLE and the Supreme Court Amends the Constitution. Recognize true reality and live with these two so important facts and allow ALL mankind to live harmoniously with one another.

[angiefox10]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

You have proved my point. I thank you for comparing how pre Jesus text was so violent and unjust. The DOMA decision by the court is in support of the message Jesus brought us. Unfortunately, when it helps to support prejudice people will reach around Jesus and pull out some old testament statements that do not apply today. Like it or not, Jesus amended the BIBLE and the Supreme Court Amends the Constitution. Recognize true reality and live with these two so important facts and allow ALL mankind to live harmoniously with one another.

From what I have observed.... people LOVE to pull out the scriptures when it fits their plan and ignore them when it doesn't. Gay marriage.... scripture says bad... Ignore multiple wives which the bible condones. I posted a several scriptures regarding how God feels on several subjects.... they were ignored. People acted like they weren't there .... Well... one person did, but that didn't have anything to do with the scriptures as much as it was a matter of, please don't show me what I don't want to see.

People really shouldn't quote scriptures unless they want them quoted back at them. You are worshiping a God who would want you to treat people lesser than you? What religion is this? No...... never mind..... don't bother answering that.... I've asked several l questions here and none have been answered so I won't expect an answer to this one either.

This is no different than the black issue. If a vendor won't "serve" a group of people for any reason.... (I will write what hasn't been written here) they are a "bigot". People will use the Bible as an excuse to treat others bad..... Really a shame.... I would be more impressed with your religion if I saw people using it for treating others nice.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

People really shouldn't quote scriptures unless they want them quoted back at them. You are worshiping a God who would want you to treat people lesser than you? What religion is this? No...... never mind..... don't bother answering that.... I've asked several l questions here and none have been answered so I won't expect an answer to this one either.

Angie, I agree. Hopefully, the first premise of any religion should be: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Rubicon has wisely and consistently focused here on the Supreme Court over-reaching in its authority, replacing the voice of the people and our self-rule...with "that eminent tribunal" as Lincoln called it. See:

Abraham Lincoln, the Supreme Court, and the Defense of Marriage Act

".......Lincoln’s rejection of the Dred Scott decision’s account of congressional authority was not intended as a mere theoretical exercise. His aim was not to see his counter-argument published in a learned journal. Rather, he made this rejection the basis of proposed political resistance to the Court’s overreaching. (emphasis added)

When his great rival, Stephen Douglas, criticized him for refusing to accept the Court’s word as final on this question, Lincoln replied that each branch of the government has a right to its own interpretation of its own powers.........Regardless of the specific policy question at hand, however, judicial activism like that in Dred Scott or Windsor is an attack on the core American principle of democratic self-government.

Just as the Taney Court told Americans in the 1850s that they were not permitted to govern themselves on the slavery issue, so today Justice Kennedy and his liberal collaborators on the Court are presuming to tell the present generation of Americans that they have no right to self-government on the question of defining marriage. That weighty question, they are telling us, will be decided by our betters—that is, by them.

Yet this kind of judicial presumption is not compatible with the American promise of popular self-rule. As Lincoln observed in his First Inaugural,

If the policy of the Government upon vital questions affecting the whole people is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made in ordinary litigation between parties in personal actions, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned their Government into the hands of that eminent tribunal.

How, one might ask, does all this explain how we might have averted the defeat in the Windsor case? After all, the previous discussion has been about how leading statesmen ought to respond to the decision, which presupposes that it has already been made. The answer to this question is that Lincoln’s example shows how responsible political leaders should have been responding all along to the contemporary Supreme Court’s record of moralistic judicial activism, so that they might have deterred the Court from doing what it did in the Windsor case.

Unlike the Dred Scott ruling, the Windsor decision is hardly a bolt from the blue, an astonishing act of judicial legislation from a Court that had previously been characterized by its sobriety and restraint. On the contrary, the Windsor ruling was almost predictable as just the latest installment in an ongoing series of cases in which the Supreme Court has taken upon itself the right to substitute its judgment for that of the people and their representatives on the basis of a fictional constitution.

Over the last several decades, the Court has invented numerous hitherto unheard-of constitutional principles: a right to abortion, strict separation of church and state, a right to sexual liberty, and a right of enemy combatants to habeas corpus, among many others.

In other words, anti-democratic judicial activism has become not exceptional but habitual, and this could only happen because our elected leaders have declined to respond to it with Lincoln’s clarity and firmness. Had they done so, there is good reason to think that the Court would have withdrawn to a prudent exercise of its genuine authority......"

Abraham Lincoln, the Supreme Court, and the Defense of Marriage Act | Public Discourse

ilovetv: A well thought out and organized explanation of the real issues here. Your posts speaks to the issue as expressed in That phrase "you don't know what you don't know" has application here. Freedoms have been replaced at the expense of so called rights and each successive generation living without those freedoms never is going to be aware. Educators have taught people to feel rather than think and because something feels good doesn't mean it is in our best interests just ask any kid that over indulged in candy bars. Citizens are beginning to awaken to that fact. Thank you for the good post

[angiefox10]

Originally Posted by rubicon

ilovetv: A well thought out and organized explanation of the real issues here. Your posts speaks to the issue as expressed in That phrase "you don't know what you don't know" has application here. Freedoms have been replaced at the expense of so called rights and each successive generation living without those freedoms never is going to be aware. Educators have taught people to feel rather than think and because something feels good doesn't mean it is in our best interests just ask any kid that over indulged in candy bars. Citizens are beginning to awaken to that fact. To wit the very low opinion of this Administration, congress and the Washington Bureaucracy. Thank you for the good post

If a child or adult eats too many candy bars... It won't feel good.... Just as if I treat someone poorly it won't feel good to me. Who feels good after denying someone equal rights?

I do believe in living my life according to what "feels good" because when it doesn't.... then I know I'm headed in the wrong direction! If I hurt someone... it doesn't feel good.... Not allowing equal rights to gays hurts! It's just wrong!!!! When a couple is together for 25, 35 or 40 years and raises a family together and they don't have the same rights as any other family.... That doesn't just hurt the couple, it hurts the children involved.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

If a child or adult eats too many candy bars... It won't feel good.... Just as if I treat someone poorly it won't feel good to me. Who feels good after denying someone equal rights?

I do believe in living my life according to what "feels good" because when it doesn't.... then I know I'm headed in the wrong direction! If I hurt someone... it doesn't feel good.... Not allowing equal rights to gays hurts! It's just wrong!!!! When a couple is together for 25, 35 or 40 years and raises a family together and they don't have the same rights as any other family.... That doesn't just hurt the couple, it hurts the children involved.

angiefox10: Hi, happen to agree with you and as a "people" person have said so throughout this thread. In my view we could have all been in a win/ win situation. What many well meaning posters miss are the unintended consequences. Its the manner in which this issue has been mismanaged in my view and like the abortion issue will split this country down the middle for years to come but that point seems to be lost on some folks. Problem solvers remove emotion and work systematically to a successful conclusion. This decision was emotionally charged and political driven by egos.

[Moderator]

Just a gentle reminder... the original topic was the Supreme Court ruling on same sex marriage.

The thread has veered off into religious and other social tangents but has remained, for the most part, thoughtful and civil and non-political. Good job!!!