Talk of The Villages Florida - Rentals, Entertainment & More
Talk of The Villages Florida - Rentals, Entertainment & More
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With all the skirting of the real issues we seem to do on this board, I ran into this from a PBS discussion on Affirmative Action.
" JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, HOST: Are you saying college admissions should be based on diversity? ELEANOR CLIFT, NEWSWEEK/DAILY BEAST: Yeah, I mean, I think lots of factors go into diversity. I think race can be one of them, and I think the Supreme Court so far agrees with that. MCLAUGHLIN: 67 percent opposed it, 28, you’re in the minority. Only 28 percent are in favor of it. PAT BUCHANAN: It should be based on excellence, John. CLIFT: As long as the Supreme Court agrees with me, I’m fine. BUCHANAN: It should be like the NFL: whoever’s the best player plays, and whoever does best academically should be advanced. What is wrong with that? MICHELLE BERNARD: Here’s a question I have. One of the things I always say because I think you can measure diversity in a lot of ways, but I think there’s an argument to be said that the greatest Affirmative Action program that there is in the country is being born white. There is a natural assumption when you are applying to institutions of higher education that you are excellent or you are more superb than others. BUCHANAN: With due respect, whites are the only group that you can discriminate against legally in America now." Read more: Pat Buchanan: 'Whites Are the Only Group That You Can Discriminate Against Legally in America Now' | NewsBusters TWO sentences stand out for me and could be the basis for a discussion, but lets keep it about the subject. First is that college admissions should be based on diversity which is what Eleanor Clift of NEWSWEEK/DAILY BEAST contends. Second is the comment by Pat Buchanan that "..... whites are the only group that you can discriminate against legally in America now." I tend to agree with Buchanan, but need to add that if that is correct, it is totally the result of political pressure and not the result of good thought or ideas. I say that because we spend time and emotions on making sure that education is available to all, and stress the diversity, YET we make very little in the way of efforts to keep kids in school, apply pressure to the family to insure that, and to insure that these young people are prepared for any education. We simply make knee jerk decisions based on votes. Please, every time this comes us, the racist charges fly.....I hope that does not happen but have we gone too far in this country down this road and does the fact that we have done that, ironically make the situation worse instead of better. Have we allowed an entire generation or two grow up with a real attitude of thinking they are deserving BECAUSE of the color of his/her skin ? I have always thought that in our attempt to "do good" or win votes, we have tipped the scale and created our own problems ! |
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#2
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Totally agree with Ms. Clift.
Quite honestly, I find Buchanan's "..... whites are the only group that you can discriminate against legally in America now" absurd. Last edited by Moderator; 08-25-2013 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Removed off topic political statement |
#3
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Face it Bucco, we're outnumbered by those who gain from "diversity". Women want diversity and minorities want diversity...it "equalizes" them.
It's why "education", a college degree, is pretty much worthless now. It's so easy to get and with unlimited government funds available, ANYONE can go to school. And, like in many areas, the standards have been lowered so much...as I said, a "degree" is pretty much worthless. The world is a different place now...we'll have to wait until after the collapse to take over again...be patient. |
#4
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In the state of Florida, anyone with a high school diploma or GED is guaranteed admission to any community college. However, access to particular programs are merit based, and I think most colleges have room within that to use carefully construed eligibility criteria that may give credit beyond pure GPA, for leadership, experience in the field and so on.
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#5
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This is basically the same topic. If you had a college age son who had excellent grades and an impressive background but was admitted to college and had to pay full tuition - but a mostly illiterate - but excellent - football player got a full scholarship to the same college, how would you feel?
Colleges need diversity but if the only thing between a white student and a minority is race in admitting only one - it is a no-win situation. Otherwise, grades and extra circular activities are what should be used. Be color blind. |
#6
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Ok......so you agree with Buchanan....I also. I do not think the football player analogy works. That is mostly about money......but when you put any ethnic group...black, white, hispanic, etc.....to the back of the line BECAUSE OF THAT ALONE....you are misusing the system. So many on here are simply proving the point I have been trying to say. You cannot discuss the real issue without this kind of caustic reaction. The hate, etc with no reasoning. The reasoning, in my opinion, is because we have been programmed NOT to have any opinion on race except that which is POLITICALLY CORRECT. Note in the article that in the polls, most people agree, but in trying to talk about it, well...you see by these posts what the reaction is. They attack the messenger, and call racist. This will never ever solve the problems and they will simply get worse and fester. I, also think, and have witnessed first hand (first hand meaning I have had personal discussions with parties involved) that this kind of thing affects the attitudes of, at least one generation. In helping an orginization in Tampa, I had the chance to talk for long periods and seriously with many black young men. They, in the great majority, do in fact feel entitled. They have been brought up that way by their parents who recall the Civil Rights movement and they expect to be given things, ie college, because and simply because they are black. They sincerely felt, or feel, that whatever government program there is should be used......let me say that again...SHOULD be used and never by passed. This is how they were brought up. Is this all young black men....of course not. BUT......if this is the attitude today, imagine the next generation. Uncomfortable discussion but in my opinion, if not had, this is going to get worse and worse. None of this applies to all, either white or black or hispanic or whatever, despite some who try always to make it that way, but it is sufficient for us to be aware of. |
#7
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I still maintain that until we, as a nation, can overcome this strong tie to politics in many issues like this without facing them as what they are.....and what they are not is political pawns. "The Supreme Court on Monday allowed affirmative action to survive in college admissions but imposed a tough legal standard, ruling that schools must prove there are “no workable race-neutral alternatives” to achieve diversity on campus. While the ruling was not a sweeping pronouncement on the future of affirmative action, it amounts to a warning to colleges nationwide that the courts will treat race-conscious admissions policies with a high degree of skepticism." Supreme Court raises bar for affirmative action in college admissions - U.S. News And I still maintain that we have an entire generation raised with either guilt or a sense of entitlement. |
#8
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All applications for college and college financing should have a number where the name goes and no address as well. Race and Sex should also be blacked out. (no pun intended)
The transcripts should have the name of the high school blacked out. This is the only way to insure that there is a level playing field. Low performance should not upgraded to the same level as superior performance by using any outside criteria, including lowering the standards.
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Real Name: Steven Massy Arrived at TV through Greenwood, IN; Moss Beach, CA; La Grange, KY; Crystal River, FL; The Villages, FL |
#9
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#10
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Perhaps, it would give us a little more clarity if we looked at the question another way. What if we asked the question "have you ever benefited from racism?" I think most of us would very quickly say a resounding NO! But is it true? My grandparents emigrated here from Europe about 100 years ago. I doubt if they would have been allowed to emigrate here if they were black. Remember for how many years we had the "Chinese Exclusion Act" which prohibited any Chinese people from coming here. How about getting an education? Did any of your ancestors benefit from an education that was totally unavailable to black people? Remember, the integration of most schools just happened about 50 years ago. How about getting a job? Did any of your ancestors get a job based on superior education and training that was unavailable to black people? How many black people did any of us work alongside in the 60's? (Military service excepted). So, my point is that in many ways we have all benefited from racism. First in being allowed to come to the land of opportunity when others were not based on the color of their skin. Next in being allowed to pursue an education when others were not based on the color of their skin. Next, in being considered for a job based on the color of their skin. The question is not whether or not affirmative action was EVER needed to correct past injustices. The question we should now be asking is whether or not affirmative action has accomplished its purpose and should now be discarded. What I say next may surprise you, but I believe that with the election of a black President, that affirmative action has done its job and we should now return to a strictly merit based system. But, I will never agree that it wasn't necessary in the first place.
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#11
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#12
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It is human to behave tribally, divine to do otherwise. Who can unconditionally always treat and think of every other with equanimity?
Go Gators, Pats, Cheeseheads, Yankees..for example... my family, hometown, friends...are more important to me than yours are to me. |
#13
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First, it validates we no longer need this, but having said that you read those posts having a good sneer and those including Ms. Clift who believe it is still valid. Second, Mr Buchanan's comments, in my opinion reflect the result of the outlived policy and the over politicizing of not only affirmative action, but many other programs. You hear folks talk about those feeling entitled....a generation of being enabled sort of leaves you feeling that way. I do not think I disagree with anything you said, and the comment for you to armor up shows the lack of understanding the point of the conversation. |
#14
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#15
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Need to remind all, including the OP, to stay on topic lest the thread be closed for delving too much into political processes. We have already had to delete 7 posts from this thread.
As the OP said about the topic: First is that college admissions should be based on diversity which is what Eleanor Clift of NEWSWEEK/DAILY BEAST contends. Second is the comment by Pat Buchanan that "..... whites are the only group that you can discriminate against legally in America now." |
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