[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

The solution is ridiculously simple, and there will eventually no other option -- start making the wealthy help pay off the debt owed to current retirees. SS is the only government program that the wealthy are excluded from by statute. The moment you hit "wealthy" (about $110K/year, last I checked), you quit having to pay for this boondoggle.

If folks like Elon and Zuck had to pay the same 15% of their lifetime earnings that we did, SS would run a surplus to the end of time. In fact, Zuck alone could cover the SS deficit for the next hundred years by himself, and still be a billionaire 100X over.

If we were a smart country, we would just calculate the amount needed to payoff the current retirees and reimburse the kids. Then we'd divide it up, tax EVERYONE to cover it, and just end the damned thing. With EVERYONE paying, it would be a trivial tax, compared to FICA. In its place, we would set up a privately-funded retirement program, and force everyone to INVEST the same 15% we had confiscated for a Ponzi scheme. Our kids would retire with an actual asset worth millions, instead of just a stupid promise that's forfeited the moment you die.

The only downside would be that the gooberment wouldn't have a slush fund to borrow from, like they have for the last 100 years. But now that they've just about blown through it, anyway, maybe we can finally convince our corrupt politicians to finally give Americans a real retirement system instead of a Ponzi scheme.

Of course, it only works if we retirees don't set our hair on fire the moment we see an ad with somebody pushing granny off a cliff.

A whole lot of words to explain that you don’t understand how the program works.

See some of the responses above:
- SS taxes during our working years do not cover what we will be paid in retirement
- investing the same amount in the market *might* earn enough to break even if there are no bad years
- SS payouts are capped just as taxable income is capped. If you want to tax more income then be prepared to pay more in benefits, then see the first item above
- The market is a similar “Ponzi” scheme as SS. Without new players to buy your shares your stock is worthless (see memecoins for an example)

SS is suffering from a lower worker to retiree ratio, longer lifespans, and now the new “no tax on SS” scam. The first is fixed by increasing taxes, the second by increasing the retirement age, and the third by ending the games.

[biker1]

The SS cap is actually at $176,100, not $110K. The SS tax is actually 6.2% to the employee and 6.2% to the employer, plus Medicare is 1.45% to the employee and 1.45% to the employer (no cap on Medicare). If you are self-employed it is 15.3% total as you pay it all. The Social Security Trust Fund is over $2T and that will be totally consumed (funding the deficit) in the next 8 years. Zuckerberg doesn't have several trillion dollars. The rest of the stuff in your post, whatever ...

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

The solution is ridiculously simple, and there will eventually no other option -- start making the wealthy help pay off the debt owed to current retirees. SS is the only government program that the wealthy are excluded from by statute. The moment you hit "wealthy" (about $110K/year, last I checked), you quit having to pay for this boondoggle.

If folks like Elon and Zuck had to pay the same 15% of their lifetime earnings that we did, SS would run a surplus to the end of time. In fact, Zuck alone could cover the SS deficit for the next hundred years by himself, and still be a billionaire 100X over.

If we were a smart country, we would just calculate the amount needed to payoff the current retirees and reimburse the kids. Then we'd divide it up, tax EVERYONE to cover it, and just end the damned thing. With EVERYONE paying, it would be a trivial tax, compared to FICA. In its place, we would set up a privately-funded retirement program, and force everyone to INVEST the same 15% we had confiscated for a Ponzi scheme. Our kids would retire with an actual asset worth millions, instead of just a stupid promise that's forfeited the moment you die.

The only downside would be that the gooberment wouldn't have a slush fund to borrow from, like they have for the last 100 years. But now that they've just about blown through it, anyway, maybe we can finally convince our corrupt politicians to finally give Americans a real retirement system instead of a Ponzi scheme.

Of course, it only works if we retirees don't set our hair on fire the moment we see an ad with somebody pushing granny off a cliff.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

The solution is ridiculously simple, and there will eventually no other option -- start making the wealthy help pay off the debt owed to current retirees. SS is the only government program that the wealthy are excluded from by statute. The moment you hit "wealthy" (about $110K/year, last I checked), you quit having to pay for this boondoggle.

.

$110,000/year is "wealthy" ? In what universe is that?

& the number where you stop paying for Social Security, is $176,100/year.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

$110,000/year is "wealthy" ? In what universe is that?

& the number where you stop paying for Social Security, is $176,100/year.

He did say that was the value the last time he checked. Perhaps before commenting he should have come up to speed on the changes since 2012.

[PilotAlan]

The market has never gone to zero, or anything close to it. If it ever did, every form of retirement would be gone (including Social Security), because the government and country are bankrupt. Yes, a recession can hurt you, but you're ignoring the decades of good rates of return before and after.

The rate of return on the Dow Jones has provided the best rate of return over any 40 year period for any investment anywhere, ever. Including the 40 years with the Great Depression in the middle of it.

Even a relatively low income worker, if that 16% of their income was invested in market-tracking mutual funds, would be a multi millionaire by their 60s.

Originally Posted by Aces4

And one big blip in the market and all that money is gone in an instant. Nothing like everyone sitting at the craps table for retirement benefits.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by PilotAlan

Even a relatively low income worker, if that 16% of their income was invested in market-tracking mutual funds, would be a multi millionaire by their 60s.

If you allowed workers to invest 16% for 40-45 years, how do you fund social security during that 40-45 years?

Currently, What you pay into the system does not go into an account for your retirement.

Instead, the money we paid was used for Social Security payments for people that were retired at the time - our parents, aunts, and uncles. That reduced the burden of having to support our parents and pay for their medical treatment.

Our benefits are paid for by younger workers.

[jayteadunn]

Create more jobs, pay more people, collect more social security taxes. Work requirements for healthy able bodied people receiving assistance benefits pre-retirement will also create more social security taxes. Remember for every dollar someone earns in America up to $176,100 earns the government 6.2 cents from the employee and 6.2 cents from the employer totaling 12.4 cents. Self employed people pay the whole 12.4 cents per dollar themselves. That is a lot of money.

[Cliff Fr]

Originally Posted by GATORBILL66

The retirement age needs to be raised by 5 years in steps over the next ten years to save social security.

Would you have the age increase apply to workers doing manual labor?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by PilotAlan

The market has never gone to zero, or anything close to it. If it ever did, every form of retirement would be gone (including Social Security), because the government and country are bankrupt. Yes, a recession can hurt you, but you're ignoring the decades of good rates of return before and after.

The rate of return on the Dow Jones has provided the best rate of return over any 40 year period for any investment anywhere, ever. Including the 40 years with the Great Depression in the middle of it.

Even a relatively low income worker, if that 16% of their income was invested in market-tracking mutual funds, would be a multi millionaire by their 60s.

Only 15.3% and that was only recently.

The amount of income taxed is capped. Cap was $110,000 in 2012 and $176,000 this year.

An individual who retired with an above average salary would have achieved just under $1M, not multi-millions.

[jimhoward]

If a percent of workers salary and an employer match are to be invested in the stock market and the resulting nest egg earmarked specifically for them, as some have suggested, why have a SSI program at all? Workers could just do that themselves. That is what a 401k does.

Despite complaints from those who have done the math and figured out they would have done better investing on their own, social security remains one of the most successful and popular government programs in history.

[MollyJo]

Originally Posted by JRcorvette

They need to let younger people put their money into a secure group of Mutual funds so that it will grow to a nice retirement amount. Anytime the government controls things it will not turn out well. They have raided the SS fund many times and used it for other pet projects. Eventually it will dry up. We have way too many government give away programs as it is right now.

The SS fund has NEVER been raided for ‘Pet Projects’ Our SS checks are paid by current workers, and any shortage comes from the SS Trust Fund created decades ago in anticipation of shortages due to less children born. The Trust Fund will run out approximately 2033-2034 unless Congress votes to Smash The Cap, currently $176,100 for higher earners. All administrations have done nothing to assure SS remains intact for the future. Politicians want to give SS to Wall Street to invest in stocks=disaster
Call your elected officials to demand they support SS by keeping employees available to help recipients when calling or visiting SS offices.
I found Dr Ed Weir on Utube, he ran the 3rd busiest SS office in the country until he retired. Now, Dr Weir does Utube podcasts daily to help all of us with the latest changes & answers questions WE call or write in. He debunks all the myths. He has his own web page that people can search
mygovexpert.com
He has also partnered with a company I can’t recall at the moment, that will assist you with choosing the best Medicare plan suited to your needs(any state) all for free. Listen to Dr Ed Weir’s Utube videos & you can learn of his vast knowledge on all SS claims & Medicare partnership. It’s all free.

[biker1]

Not exactly. The Trust Fund is the manifestation of the collection of SS taxes in excess of benefits paid. Ideally, the SS tax would be adjusted annually to exactly match benefits paid. By collecting excess SS tax and funneling that money into the general fund (where it was spent paying Government bills) and then issuing IOUs to the SSA for those funds, all they guaranteed was that money would need to be borrowed from global markets to pay benefits when (in the future, which is actually now) they exceed SS taxes collected (pay back the IOUs). Raising the cap on earnings that are subject to SS tax will, by itself, not fix the problem. It will only delay the date when the Trust Fund is exhausted (all IOUs have been paid back by borrowing money from global markets) and benefits are reduced since there is no law to allow SS to pay benefits in excess of what they collect via SS taxes or cashing in of Trust Fund IOUs. Other actions need to be taken.

Originally Posted by MollyJo

The SS fund has NEVER been raided for ‘Pet Projects’ Our SS checks are paid by current workers, and any shortage comes from the SS Trust Fund created decades ago in anticipation of shortages due to less children born. The Trust Fund will run out approximately 2033-2034 unless Congress votes to Smash The Cap, currently $176,100 for higher earners. All administrations have done nothing to assure SS remains intact for the future. Politicians want to give SS to Wall Street to invest in stocks=disaster
Call your elected officials to demand they support SS by keeping employees available to help recipients when calling or visiting SS offices.
I found Dr Ed Weir on Utube, he ran the 3rd busiest SS office in the country until he retired. Now, Dr Weir does Utube podcasts daily to help all of us with the latest changes & answers questions WE call or write in. He debunks all the myths. He has his own web page that people can search
mygovexpert.com
He has also partnered with a company I can’t recall at the moment, that will assist you with choosing the best Medicare plan suited to your needs(any state) all for free. Listen to Dr Ed Weir’s Utube videos & you can learn of his vast knowledge on all SS claims & Medicare partnership. It’s all free.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by MollyJo

The SS fund has NEVER been raided for ‘Pet Projects’ Our SS checks are paid by current workers, and any shortage comes from the SS Trust Fund created decades ago in anticipation of shortages due to less children born. The Trust Fund will run out approximately 2033-2034 unless Congress votes to Smash The Cap, currently $176,100 for higher earners. All administrations have done nothing to assure SS remains intact for the future. Politicians want to give SS to Wall Street to invest in stocks=disaster
Call your elected officials to demand they support SS by keeping employees available to help recipients when calling or visiting SS offices.
I found Dr Ed Weir on Utube, he ran the 3rd busiest SS office in the country until he retired. Now, Dr Weir does Utube podcasts daily to help all of us with the latest changes & answers questions WE call or write in. He debunks all the myths. He has his own web page that people can search
mygovexpert.com
He has also partnered with a company I can’t recall at the moment, that will assist you with choosing the best Medicare plan suited to your needs(any state) all for free. Listen to Dr Ed Weir’s Utube videos & you can learn of his vast knowledge on all SS claims & Medicare partnership. It’s all free.

The fund has been raided. There is no Lock-Box.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

$110,000/year is "wealthy" ? In what universe is that?

The average income in the USA is about $60,000 to $65,000. To a person making the average income, $110,000 looks wealthy.

[Blueblaze]

Originally Posted by biker1

The SS cap is actually at $176,100, not $110K. The SS tax is actually 6.2% to the employee and 6.2% to the employer, plus Medicare is 1.45% to the employee and 1.45% to the employer (no cap on Medicare). If you are self-employed it is 15.3% total as you pay it all. The Social Security Trust Fund is over $2T and that will be totally consumed (funding the deficit) in the next 8 years. Zuckerberg doesn't have several trillion dollars. The rest of the stuff in your post, whatever ...

OK, I can pick nits, too.

I already said that I hadn't recently checked the cap. OK, it's now $176K. So, what? What does that have to do with my point THAT THE RICH DON'T PAY? By the gooberment's own definition, you aren't rich until you hit that cap.

Yes, the employer picks up half of the 15% -- which they, of course, simply deduct from your wages. It's still 15% or your life that you could have used to save for your own retirement (and pass on to your kids!) THAT THE RICH DON'T PAY.

The entire point you ignored with your childish "whatever" response, is that SS is a literal broken Ponzi scheme that can easily be fixed without hurting anyone. We simply need to open our minds and eyes to the fact that, whatever you want to call it, it's a government debt which we have let the rich off the hook from paying for the past 100 years.