[Wisenano]

Excellent! Thank you.

[Saluce]

Originally Posted by rjm1cc

I took a firearms training class from the local Schieffer. The subject of shooting to wound a person was discussed and examples shown. The basic rule if you have to draw your gun and fire you fire to kill. I think the professionals have to reevaluate this and maybe we have only one officer firing at first or maybe a qualified sniper shoot to wound any suspect that has a gun. The professionals who decide are those that have been in the situation.

So your example is to designate one officer to pull their weapon in a situation where there is a armed threat?!?!?! What like enie meany miney Mo you get to shoot?!?!?
If only situations were that well planned out in real life situations. It only takes one second and your dead!!!
I get what your saying, but that would be an impossible scenario In a real life situation.

[Tom2172]

Why don’t criminals drop their weapons? That the easiest and simplest solution!
Surrender don’t be a threat, get your day in court!
If cops and public are not being threaten there is no need for shooting!

All these people that after the fact from their couch say the police should of done this or that - they should next time be the first responders let them handle the armed criminal the next time! See how they do

[shueburruss]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Did you miss the mental illness part?

Tell that to the family of a fallen police officer in my home town whose throat was slit while responding to a situation where the assailant, with mental illness had a knife. The police office tried "talking him down"...

[Saluce]

Originally Posted by EviesGP

And law enforcement training will also show that a knife wielding man can charge and kill someone within 50ft, EVEN while being shot himself, as adrenaline could keep him alive for that amount of time.

Secondly, the man in Philly was walking around with the knife, so not only were the officers a threat, so was the general public, as he was walking all around, and completely ignoring their commands. If they had not acted, and he harmed or killed someone else.....well, you know the rest of the story.

Exactly!!!!
Of course when the media mentions “kitchen knife”, does everyone think it’s a butter knife?!?!? I own some pretty wicked “kitchen” type knives.
The call started out that the suspect was chasing & threatening to his family with the knife!!!
I have a LEO friend that was stabbed with a screw driver while trying to talk to the suspect. Thank God it didn’t kill him & yes my friend ended up shooting the screw driver welding suspect!!!
My LEO friend hesitated and got stabbed!!! Thankfully he was able to go home to his family!!!
All you keyboard Warriors need to physically put yourself in an officers shoes before questioning & saying what you would do.
The criminals don’t care and compliance isn’t a choice they go with.

[jbrown132]

Originally Posted by 8notes

Why don't police carry tasers? They are a weapon, can be used at a distance, like pepper spray, and are less lethal than guns. Through the end of September 2020, over 700 people have been shot and killed by police, an increasing trend.

Tasers are fine for subduing an unarmed person who may be resisting arrest but not an armed individual. Your a police officer. You have an armed individual fifteen feet away. You pull out your taser and shoot the individual. You hit him and get what they refer to as a clothing disconnect. You as the police officer are dead. Same scenario wit an individual carrying a knife. You miss with the taser and guess what. Chances are as the officer you are dead or seriously wounded. I just love you people who sit in your cozy homes who have never in your lives been in a life threatening situation Monday morning quarterbacking these officers. Just once put yourself in their shoes where you have less than a second to make a decision as to putting that threat down or you not going home. What would you choose to do?

[Mrprez]

On Live PD you often heard officers being directed to go to less lethal weapons. One or more would maintain high levels while others would go to tasers.

[NFRicaS]

Originally Posted by mneumann02

There are a lot of questions concerning police shootings such as "Why didn't the police shoot to wound the person?" or "Why did they have to shoot him so many times?" I know I won't change anyone's mind with a simple post here, but my experience might help temper some views.

A few years ago, I was fortunate to be chosen for an FBI Citizen Training Course. There were 25 of us in the 10 week class. Participant citizens ranged from Black activists to far right conservatives. Subjects covered in the 4 1/2 hour weekly sessions included terrorism, white collar crime, kidnapping, violent crimes and "When and How to Use a Firearm."

The FBI trained us that if someone is life-threatening (to you or someone else) and you decide you to shoot, you shoot until the threat is ended. Only in Wild West movies does someone shoot to knock the gun out of the bad guy's hand or shoot to wound. To prove this important point, the FBI set up a very life-like full scale video on a wall with a very real looking and feeling fake gun that interacted with what was being shown. We each took turns as an FBI agent deciding if, when and whom to shoot. It was so real many of us were shaking during our turn as the video was played. Our first guy up shot the bad guy one time, and as the bad guy fell, he turned to us and smiled as he blew the imagined smoke from his gun barrel. Unfortunately for our "pretend" FBI agent, as the bad guy fell, he emptied his revolver into the back of the "agent."

At first the Black activist refused to role-play, but eventually did. He was shaking as he kept yelling, "FBI, drop the weapon!" When he finally decided to shoot, he not only emptied the gun's 8 round capacity, he reloaded and shot a couple more times. (They still talk about this in that FBI office.)

I asked a question. How do you know when to shoot? The FBI agent handed me the fake gun and said I was an FBI agent and I just caught a bad guy (him) robbing a bank. As the bad guy, he walked across the room away from me and put a fake gun to his head. I yelled, "FBI, drop the gun." He started yelling he was going to kill himself and walked toward me with the gun at his head. In less than the blink of an eye, as he got 10 feet away, he turned the gun on me, shot me, and said "You're dead." I had been ready to pull the trigger the moment he made a move. But I am now a dead FBI agent.

I am not arguing that all shootings are justified by any means. I'm just saying that those 25 citizens, who went through that training exercise, developed a lot more empathy for understanding how extremely tense those situations are- how life and death decisions have to be made in split seconds that will have ramifications for the rest of people's lives.

But if there are 4+ officers and the one with the mental issues has only a knife? Come on, NO EXCUSE for a shooting death...shoot in knee, use a taser, swing a billy club...whatever...and for God’s sake, have social workers in police departments...

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Mrprez

On Live PD you often heard officers being directed to go to less lethal weapons. One or more would maintain high levels while others would go to tasers.

did you realize that show was scripted and edited?

[jleonard]

And kill one of his family members?! Remember; the police were already called to his home several times that day.

[Linnberg]

Originally Posted by Wisenano

Excellent! Thank you.

This was the best, logical, educational discussion I have ever seen on this site. Wish all could be like this, non-insulting, non-sarcastic, not
Political or judgement also.
I learned so much about why LEO (learned even acronym) do not always use or carry lasers and why they have
To shoot (sometimes) to kill.
Does not change my politics or empathy for the mental ill but it does change my feelings on why some
Police should not be tried for any reason after they kill someone that I thought could be handled in another way.
And yes while I do believe in peaceful protests, I certainly will never condone rioting,
Looting or non-peaceful demonstrations whether from the radical left or right
Thanks again all of you who
Posted on this subject.

[Art cov]

Children are not taught to even obey their parents or grandparents. THE FIRST TIME. It’s pitiful! I taught once and made sure they heard me. If near a road, near a snake that they didn’t see or a number of dangers. Today mother’s are so stressed for the kids not listening. Not the kids fault for they are being trained to not obey parents, teachers and police just to mention a few. Child training is an everyday event. How many times do we hear ( these kids are driving me crazy)! If they don’t obey mom n dad, then they won’t have respect for authorities. It’s getting worse n worse. Yelling and screaming at kids don’t work. Lovingly teaching them works! I always said, train and correct them so the police don’t have to deal with them later in life. It’s work but it pays off.

[Mrprez]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

did you realize that show was scripted and edited?

Yeah right. Proof?

[RockyGeans]

Amen

[cb1972]

Originally Posted by Bellavita

If you have a gun you shoot to kill. They are trained to shoot to kill when you take a gun class or get concealed carry you are taught shoot to kill so keeping that in mind if you pull your gun it is for one purpose...kill.

You are not supposed to wave your gun to warn.

That is why we need to give police more tools and resources I am not saying abolish police help them. Retool their department

LEOs are not taught to "Shoot to Kill", they are taught to stop the action, or in other words, stop the "deadly physical force" that is imminent