[Whitley]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Or any library.

I guess I am a 20th century liberal. Back when that meant you were for free speech and against wars. I wouldn't want to ban any book from being sold to an adult.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Whitley

There are no, zero, zippo books banned statewide in the state of Florida. There are books that are pulled from schools, or restricted to High School. I am a bit surprised that anyone would feel this is wrong. July 1, a law went in effect that allows parents to petition their school board to review books they find inappropriate for children of a certain age. That is called being a concerned, involved parent. Many on this site have criticized parents for not being involved in their child's education. Can not have it both ways.

As always, consider the source. Accuracy suffers when hysteria is the goal.

[Chee-Chee]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News

I was in the classroom for 33 years. What you are describing is possibly high school or college. Elementary teachers have 2-3 times the workload. Even veteran teachers are overwhelmed. I did many years as an inner city teacher. Overwhelmed at times was a understatement

[Chee-Chee]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Here is the problem, teachers are offered tenure to compensate for their lack of salary.
The general public would have a fit if they had to pay a decent salary to a teacher.
So political negotiators offer tenure instead.
Tenure should be removed from all contracts and teachers should be held to their job performance, but the public should be aware that comes at a cost. You can't have it both ways.

In Fl it was removed in 2011.

[mrf0151]

Originally Posted by Kelevision

Yes, Florida has one of the highest vacancies of any other state. They’ve been leaving in droves……. Florida's teachers are leaving in droves - Orlando Sentinel

All the more reason for Charter Schools where parents are required to be involved. In these schools there are far fewer problems all the way around. Teachers love teaching in this environment as they see the fruits of their labor rewarded in that 90 some percent of these students graduate, and a much higher percent go on to higher education.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

As always, consider the source. Accuracy suffers when hysteria is the goal.

You say consider the sources. WFLA, SNOPES, NewsWeek, USA Today. I do not understand what problem you have with these sources. Do you just say "consider the source" when you read something that you do not like? Do you disagree with pulling books from grade school libraries that deal with pedophilia, bestiality, explicitly described rape, animal rape (I have no idea. I would think all bestiality is rape). ? Surely we can agree that this is not a book that should be in grade school libraries.Wouldn't you agree?

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by mrf0151

All the more reason for Charter Schools where parents are required to be involved. In these schools there are far fewer problems all the way around. Teachers love teaching in this environment as they see the fruits of their labor rewarded in that 90 some percent of these students graduate, and a much higher percent go on to higher education.

You make an excellent point.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Whitley

I guess I am a 20th century liberal. Back when that meant you were for free speech and against wars. I wouldn't want to ban any book from being sold to an adult.

That is fine if a bookstore wants to carry and sell that kind of book. My point was a library that is supported by taxpayers should not have to buy a book like that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Whitley

I too googled and the first one I checked was a book called Damsel. It has graphic depictions of rape, animal abuse, pedophilia, animal rape (?), beastiality, Profane description of the human body. What kind of a person would want this to be on bookshelves in the school library.

Sounds like a collection of passages from the bible. We should ban that too. It's one of the oldest porn novels in existence.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

That is fine if a bookstore wants to carry and sell that kind of book. My point was a library that is supported by taxpayers should not have to buy a book like that.

And if they already HAVE a book like that, or the book is given to them without charge, they should not have to dump it just because some ignorant puritan thinks that reading about a boy who likes boys will turn you gay.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Chee-Chee

In Fl it was removed in 2011.

It's another reason why there's such a high turnover in Florida schools and qualified teachers are in short supply. It's why Florida is offering teacher positions to UNqualified (not just underqualified) armed services veterans. The state doesn't care whether or not you know how to teach or are even comfortable around children. It just wants to pretend it cares about veterans (while supporting the reduction of veterans benefits), and children (while shaming children who are different and underfunding special ed services).

[jaj523]

Baltimore spends the most money per student than any other city in the country.. And it ranks at the bottom in student learning. Google for the statistics. This is true for many big cities as well. Money isn't the answer. Revamping the system is.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by jaj523

Revamping the system is.

What do you suggest?

Is the system that different now than when we went to school?

Do most people here think they got a great education, good education, adequate education, or poor education?

It seems with the internet, every kid has access to a great education. There are lectures and videos on every subject.

In today’s world, I have more access to information from my home computer than I did at my college library.

With remote learning, students should have access to the best teachers in the country and not have to put up with poor teachers. Sort of like Great Courses. Think of the money we could save.

Why haven’t we done it or at least tried it in some school districts?

The educational industry would object but the purpose of schools is to educate the children - not provide jobs for teachers and administrators.

We seem to doing the latter much better than the former!

Here is an 8th grade test from 1912. I would bet that 80% of today’s high school graduates could not pass it.

Bullitt County History - 1912 School Exam Answers

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Whitley

What happened over the years that pushed our schools to this dangerous state we see today as described by you? Why are classes so much more dangerous today? What has changed?

It’s called Dr. Spock. 200 years of spanking in the school environment came to a screeching halt. His cookie cutter model of discipline fit if all kids were the same, but they are not! One child conforms immediately through logic and anxiety if admonished, another needs a more physical correction type response to misbehavior. Spock sold a lot of books, but ruined classroom order.

The second poison pill was full inclusion.

The last poison pill was IEP protections from discipline.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Sounds like a collection of passages from the bible. We should ban that too. It's one of the oldest porn novels in existence.

Pretty sure many are just fine with that...