[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by billethkid

not being able to discuss those things that affect our every day lives, or inform others of the pluses and minuses of local, state and federal issues is no less a need as where to get one's hair cut or lawn mowed.

Even when political was an "opt" in option, there were those who would opt in and then turn around and complain to the administration about their view/interpretation of what was being said or how. Add to that the very, very few who did not respect the rules of civility and the political forum was closed.

Fortunately there are other forums with current events policies to allow political participation.

I am still an advocate of a political forum here on TOTV with an opt in and a disclaimer to "enter at one's own risk". I recognize this is easier said than done.

I never could understand why those who dislike the subject so very much, never took the easy option....don't go in and read what you do not like.

Anyway it is what it is.....to each his own (to a point that is!).

btk

I, for one, often disagreed with your posts when we had a political forum. But they were thoughtful and sincere. The sincerity sometimes had emotional content, and I think people often misinterpret emotion about an issue as anger expressed toward another poster. I think I saw the difference between those two motives and successfully avoided personal attacks.

I miss the exchange of sincere, heartfelt and emotional thoughts about issues which are very important to all of us. I miss the perspective on these things which came largely from retired folks like myself.

So, this time btk, I couldn't agree more with your post. Good job.

[JB in TV]

By becoming a member of this site, we all agreed to the forum guidelines. I recently posted a thread where it sounded like I was criticizing the admin/mods for allowing political threads. Quite the contrary, I was more commenting on the fact that we (the members and posters) often get involved in what seem to be political discussions.

Many of us first came to this site to have a question answered about The Villages, as we contemplated our decisions to get involved in the Villages Lifestyle, others found it by accident when looking for something to help them once they became Villagers (landscapers, lanai extensions, etc). The site provides a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

I wasn't here when the political discussions were allowed, so I can't comment on the disagreements and how all that went down.

There are always those in life who want to stir things up, and others who let themselves get "stirred".

And then there are those who are just very passionate about their beliefs.

It's not easy being a moderator...trust me....

The staff here does a great job. I echo the OPs comment....Thank you, Admin/Moderator.

[cbg150]

Civil discussion and respectful disagreement with one's neighbors is the very essence of what it means to live in a democratic society. When did we become so fearful of discourse? Perhaps we are stuck in this polarized society because everybody is so wary to share one's principles and listen to (and try to understand) their neighbors convictions too. Politics is not evil, close-mindedness is.

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by cbg150

Civil discussion and respectful disagreement with one's neighbors is the very essence of what it means to live in a democratic society. When did we become so fearful of discourse? Perhaps we are stuck in this polarized society because everybody is so wary to share one's principles and listen to (and try to understand) their neighbors convictions too. Politics is not evil, close-mindedness is.

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2

BRAVO!!!

I wouldn't say that the close-mindedness is "evil".....if somebody wants to live only in their stubborn head that wants to hear only their own opinion, they have a right to be such.

To me the problem of close-mindedness is that it deprives a person of fact and reality that can change their life and society's, opening up all kinds of possibilities for interaction and constructive exchange, conversation and involvement with others.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

No I can not. As much as I wish, I do not have the ability not to take the bait.

I appreciate your honesty. I think it speaks for most of us and is therefore refreshing. Ahhhh!

Even when I start a thread myself, sometimes people will come along and try to bait me into moving in an unintended direction. They sometimes go so far as to air grievances based on things they think I said in previous threads. And I don't think the moderators have time to police it all. They often let it get totally out of hand and then when someone complains, they shut it down. (I guess I'm not going to get any brownie points here.)......

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by gomoho

I understand there are rules, but personally find talking about stretching lanais and who offers the best lawn service as rather boring. Respectful, intellectual give and take keeps us on our toes, makes us use our brains, and opens us to other ideas be it race, religion, sexual orientation or any other current event.

Please don't suggest I start my own website to discuss these things because I don't have the where-with-all to accomplish something like that and I appreciate sharing thoughts with my Village neighbors. I don't understand why the few who are offended don't exercise their right not to engage so the rest of us can engage. Just a thought of one humble Villager. I suppose this may be over the top???

The thoughts you expressed are at the top of my approval list. They're at the top but not "over the top".

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

[/COLOR]

On what topic/s were the posts or thread removed?

I missed this whole storm somehow?

I hope I didn't cause the problem.

My lousy unwanted two cents worth.

I have been on this forum either at the beginning of the forum or certainly very close to the beginning.

Political discussion was part and parcel of everyday conversation on the aboard. Then, as I recall, someone wanted to bring a horse track to The Villages. The admin set up a special section for this discussion as it prompted mucho interest. It became political as a group leaning one way was for and a group leaning the other was against.

This brought many new folks to TOTV and when the horse racing discussion ended they stayed. Politics was part of the board with no private spot.

Many of those who joined TOTV at that time were smart, aggressive and well read on politics. Lots of high spirited debates ensued.

I guess from here on should be considered my opinion. Up front, as a result of the more aggressive posting, a number of us who were "old timers" were asked privately by the admin if we felt the experience on here was worst, same or better the other political discussion boards we visited. My response was it was not bad, and in my opinion it wasn't.

At this point, and again my opinion, some posters began to use the "complaint" method with the admin and it got to be a workload, plus, and this I will never understand other posters on TOTV complained of being "exposed" to political discussions......why, someone will Ned to explain to me. If I am offended by ANY THREAD OR DISCUSSION, I don't read it.

Anyway,so it went private to resolve this issue,and a number of posters were thrown off the board. One problem I might mention is THAT MANY OR MOST CAME BACK...STILL COME BACK WITH MODIFIED NAMES.

The political forum,WHICH REMEMBER REQUIRED YOU TO TAKE STEPS TO EVEN VIEW,was, IN MY OPINION, then "hijacked" by a faction who actually teamed up and had strategies on posting. They would surge the board.

Unlike the original members, IN MY OPINION, these were not well read informed folks, but those who had ties to parties and groups and thus, they were NEVER INDIVIDUAL POSTERS,at least not in the traditional sense.

The demands the admin time by those not discussing but plying a strategy became it appears a real strain.

A political discussion, by its very nature is high spirited and can become personal. I found posters a few years ago to have sharp tongues at times, but not sufficient for some of the actions that we're happening at the end.

I support political discussion,however if there is No way to control those who are not here to discuss and the demands are that high then so be it.

BUT PLEASE explain the effect the political discussions in a private signin area has on anyone besides those who want to agree to become a part ?

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

Might I suggest to you the very thing you suggest to others? If you are not interested in the daily, and yes often routine, issues that Villagers deal with (your examples being stretching lanais and lawn services), then you to can choose not to read those threads. Or if you are completely "bored" by TOTV without a political forum, then you are certainly free to drop out rather than continue to be "bored"! There were many people that I saw who were very active and contributed very positively to TOTV who are no longer on the forum--and this was their right too.

And if you personally are not in a position to create a Villages political discussion website, you might wish to get together with a group of like-minded neighbors, and maybe as as a group you can accomplish what you individually feel you are not able to. I am sure it would be a welcome addition to websites for and about Villagers, and there is certainly nothing "over the top" about it.


I do not disagree with this at all. I too thought the "opt in" political forum was a great idea. However, TOTV is a private organization, and if its owners have taken this position--"Please note that political comments or references are not allowed on TOTV and can result in user account restrictions"--they are certainly within their rights. And when there was the "opt in" political forum and some who opted in complained about what was being said--and I must assume (this is very important!) that the complaints had to do with content and not personal insults and attacks--then that would have to be left as the problem of the complainers! However, there is no point in pursuing this, since there is no political forum....

I would suggest you and others in favor of a political forum to re-read my OP. My objection--and my gratitude to the owners of TOTV--stems not from a fair discussion of significant topics, even those that have nothing to do with TV (or perhaps do only remotely as they would do to anywhere in the country) but rather from at best the violation of the "no politics" rule of the owners of TOTV--and at worst from the personal, abusive, insulting attacks on those with differing views that certainly existed in the threads that I commend the Admin/Moderator for removing!

Bingo, Well said and I agree 100%

[JB in TV]

Bucco, thanks for the very clear and thoughtful explanation. I agree with your comment that if one is offended by a thread or discussion, that person should not read it. For some folks, that can be easier to say than do. Forums can be very addicting.

I have no idea how many staff TOTV has, but to offer a political discussion area would likely require more staff.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I appreciate your honesty. I think it speaks for most of us and is therefore refreshing. Ahhhh!

Even when I start a thread myself, sometimes people will come along and try to bait me into moving in an unintended direction. They sometimes go so far as to air grievances based on things they think I said in previous threads. And I don't think the moderators have time to police it all. They often let it get totally out of hand and then when someone complains, they shut it down. (I guess I'm not going to get any brownie points here.)......

Thank you. I know where I stand on so many issues and they are just too liberal for some folks and when challenged negatively, TO MY FAULT, I would fall into that trap and open my big mouth too wide and get in trouble with Admin. Admin has been more than tolerant with members with both points of view, but when it got crazy they did what needed to be done and shut it down. I know I see more members posting now and more TOTV supporters placing ads. I say with my most sincere honest opinion, that I have NO CLUE what race, political affiliation, Gender or age any of the Moderators or Admin are. That is amazing to me how neutral they are.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bucco

My lousy unwanted two cents worth.

I have been on this forum either at the beginning of the forum or certainly very close to the beginning.

Political discussion was part and parcel of everyday conversation on the aboard. Then, as I recall, someone wanted to bring a horse track to The Villages. The admin set up a special section for this discussion as it prompted mucho interest. It became political as a group leaning one way was for and a group leaning the other was against.

This brought many new folks to TOTV and when the horse racing discussion ended they stayed. Politics was part of the board with no private spot.

Many of those who joined TOTV at that time were smart, aggressive and well read on politics. Lots of high spirited debates ensued.

I guess from here on should be considered my opinion. Up front, as a result of the more aggressive posting, a number of us who were "old timers" were asked privately by the admin if we felt the experience on here was worst, same or better the other political discussion boards we visited. My response was it was not bad, and in my opinion it wasn't.

At this point, and again my opinion, some posters began to use the "complaint" method with the admin and it got to be a workload, plus, and this I will never understand other posters on TOTV complained of being "exposed" to political discussions......why, someone will Ned to explain to me. If I am offended by ANY THREAD OR DISCUSSION, I don't read it.

Anyway,so it went private to resolve this issue,and a number of posters were thrown off the board. One problem I might mention is THAT MANY OR MOST CAME BACK...STILL COME BACK WITH MODIFIED NAMES.

The political forum,WHICH REMEMBER REQUIRED YOU TO TAKE STEPS TO EVEN VIEW,was, IN MY OPINION, then "hijacked" by a faction who actually teamed up and had strategies on posting. They would surge the board.

Unlike the original members, IN MY OPINION, these were not well read informed folks, but those who had ties to parties and groups and thus, they were NEVER INDIVIDUAL POSTERS,at least not in the traditional sense.

The demands the admin time by those not discussing but plying a strategy became it appears a real strain.

A political discussion, by its very nature is high spirited and can become personal. I found posters a few years ago to have sharp tongues at times, but not sufficient for some of the actions that we're happening at the end.

I support political discussion,however if there is No way to control those who are not here to discuss and the demands are that high then so be it.

BUT PLEASE explain the effect the political discussions in a private signin area has on anyone besides those who want to agree to become a part ?

I think that what you say has merit. I wonder why some discussions are allowed to stand and others not in the present time.

[JP]

Thank you to the moderator for keeping us all civil and on task to answering the current post.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think that what you say has merit. I wonder why some discussions are allowed to stand and others not in the present time.

I think it is a moderator/admin to decide. It appears that each have their own way of looking at things.

I can accept what ever. My criticisms are on things I do not understand and therefore cannot speak to intelligently.

1. How or why are banned posters allowed back on the board ?

2. Why does the opinion of non participating members carry ANY WEIGHT whatsoever ?

Again, these are my questions and PLEASE be aware.....I do not have a clue what is involved in running the board.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think that what you say has merit. I wonder why some discussions are allowed to stand and others not in the present time.

IMO whether a discussion is political or not is highly subjective which is left to the moderators to determine. One person might consider it a lively discussion while another person deems it too political. As members, we have to abide by the rules of the forum.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by gomoho

I understand there are rules, but personally find talking about stretching lanais and who offers the best lawn service as rather boring. Respectful, intellectual give and take keeps us on our toes, makes us use our brains, and opens us to other ideas be it race, religion, sexual orientation or any other current event.

Please don't suggest I start my own website to discuss these things because I don't have the where-with-all to accomplish something like that and I appreciate sharing thoughts with my Village neighbors. I don't understand why the few who are offended don't exercise their right not to engage so the rest of us can engage. Just a thought of one humble Villager. I suppose this may be over the top???

Gomoho ... I totally agree with your comments. I personally found the Political Forum to be interesting and educational. And I felt the sensibilities of other members were protected by making it an Opt In Forum.

But sadly, it's water over the bridge. Of course the Owners of the business called TOTV have the absolute right to make any rules they wish. Unfortunately we lost some good members with sharp minds when the Forum closed its doors.