[PennBF]

Our system is not "broken". It is the best in the world and every American
should be proud of our system. I have traveled in Europe , etc quite a bit and I am proud of our country. I am disgusted with anyone
who falls prey to those who would like to run our country down.

[JenAjd]

This was a post on someone's Facebook and I thought it was an excellant way to look at this whole thing. We all can have an opinion of course, but ultimately it is the jury who decides. I agree our system is THE best in the world. There certainly are exceptions where it
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"I read this on a friends status- with thought I would have to agree----I wasn't in the courtroom to hear what the jurors heard only what the media cares to share with us. Jurors can only vote guilty if they have NO doubt. I don't know this mom personally, I don't know anything about her life growing up before this all happened...I will not judge...only God knows the truth."

[billmar]

Originally Posted by JenAjd;368***

This was a post on someone's Facebook and I thought it was an excellant way to look at this whole thing. We all can have an opinion of course, but ultimately it is the jury who decides. I agree our system is THE best in the world. There certainly are exceptions where it
************************************************** ***

"I read this on a friends status- with thought I would have to agree----I wasn't in the courtroom to hear what the jurors heard only what the media cares to share with us. Jurors can only vote guilty if they have NO doubt. I don't know this mom personally, I don't know anything about her life growing up before this all happened...I will not judge...only God knows the truth."

I think it's beyond a reasonable doubt.

[bkcunningham1]

I think that is where the jurors may have been confused too Jen. The law does NOT say the jurors must have no doubt. I think someone else tried to point out on another thread how television crime and television court dramas have given people misconceptions about reality and our real criminal justice system.

I personally know people who have been abused physically, sexually, mentally, verbally and every combination you can put together. They wouldn't kill anyone. Killing your child because you were abused as a child is a terrible defense in my opinion; but apparently in this crazy world we live in, it works.

It is sad to me to think that Casey Anthony may end up serving less time for killing her own child than Michael Vick spent for fighting and killing dogs. Our values are really perverted.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by PennBF

Our system is not "broken". It is the best in the world and every American
should be proud of our system. I have traveled in Europe , etc quite a bit and I am proud of our country. I am disgusted with anyone
who falls prey to those who would like to run our country down.

Oh stop. Anyone who knows me, knows that it was not my intent to run our country down.

This is a place where people can vent. You do.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Originally Posted by PennBF

Our system is not "broken". It is the best in the world and every American
should be proud of our system. I have traveled in Europe , etc quite a bit and I am proud of our country. I am disgusted with anyone
who falls prey to those who would like to run our country down.

PennBF, anyone who questions systems and procedures that may or may not work as intended are not "running our country down." You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to question the patriotism of anyone who disagrees with you.

If no one ever questioned our systems or ways of life, we would still have slavery, women would not be allowed to vote...

[jackz]

Originally Posted by PennBF

Our system is not "broken". It is the best in the world and every American
should be proud of our system. I have traveled in Europe , etc quite a bit and I am proud of our country. I am disgusted with anyone
who falls prey to those who would like to run our country down.

Not sure if your comment was directed at me or at Gracie. Seems Gracie has answered you very well. As for me, I am happy you have traveled in Europe and have had the opportunity to experience life outside the USA but being a career U.S. Government Employee who is very proud of our country and having had the opportunity to represent our country abroad in 3different European Countries as well as one Asian country, I am only stating the fact of the perception of our judicial system by others based on the OJ and Casey fiascos.

I did not and do not take their comments as trying to "run our country down" but respect their opinions based on the two cases I cited.

So direct your disgust elsewhere. I will not add a "big applause" icon to this message as I don't need self gratification for providing my thoughts.

[CMANN]

No system of justice is perfect. I happen to think that ours is the greatest. Some do not.

Which would you prefer, an imperfect system that occasionally allows a criminal to escape justice or would you prefer a system that occasionally kills the innocent?

I think you know which one I would pick.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Originally Posted by CMANN

No system of justice is perfect. I happen to think that ours is the greatest. Some do not.

Which would you prefer, an imperfect system that occasionally allows a criminal to escape justice or would you prefer a system that occasionally kills the innocent?

I think you know which one I would pick.

Unfortunately, ours has been proven to do both.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Pturner

No, you are not the only one. To my thinking, common sense is not just permitted in our jury system, it is necessary for our justice system to work. That's why the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt-- i.e., a doubt that is based on reason-- and not the impossible beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Succinct and to the point. "Reasonable doubt" has been transformed to mean "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" in too many people's heads by the improbable and impossible scientific reclamation of hard proof with only the extreme scarcest of physical evidence in all of these years of "CSI" programs. People think these fantasies must happen in real life now.

All the evidence and facts surrounding this case only connect to one person and one person only. That person will be free to walk among you very soon.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

All the evidence and facts surrounding this case only connect to one person and one person only. That person will be free to walk among you very soon.

Jose Baez, Dorothy Simms, Cheney Mason, Linda Kinney Baden all swear that Casey did not kill Caylee. They say they know this for a fact. How do they know this?

Because a narcissistic, sociopathic compulsive liar told them so, of course.

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Succinct and to the point. "Reasonable doubt" has been transformed to mean "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" in too many people's heads by the improbable and impossible scientific reclamation of hard proof with only the extreme scarcest of physical evidence in all of these years of "CSI" programs. People think these fantasies must happen in real life now.

All the evidence and facts surrounding this case only connect to one person and one person only. That person will be free to walk among you very soon.

Richie - I agree with your assessment of the effect of too much CSI etc. on juries and its affect on what constitutes "reasonable doubt." I made a similar post in one of these many Casey threads.

However, I do not think that the prosecution's case was compelling enough for capital murder. Personally, i have always thought she involved - but that the prosecutors did not connect the dots enough for me...

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by katezbox

Richie - I agree with your assessment of the effect of too much CSI etc. on juries and its affect on what constitutes "reasonable doubt." I made a similar post in one of these many Casey threads.

However, I do not think that the prosecution's case was compelling enough for capital murder. Personally, i have always thought she involved - but that the prosecutors did not connect the dots enough for me...

She admittedly did not call the police for 31 Days, and instead went clubbing and having a ball and getting tattoos to commemorate her new and beautiful life. That should be classified aggravated child abuse right there.

Plenty of dots enough for me.

[Freeda]

[QUOTE=RichieLion;368569
Plenty of dots enough for me.[/QUOTE]

For me too, and they were all connected to each other, and the only person they all connected to was Casey. I wonder if all the science presented actually sort of backfired by contributing to an even higher standard of proof than 'reasonable doubt', subconsciously, in the minds of the jury. To me the most compelling evidence was the nonexpert evidence.

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by Freeda

For me too, and they were all connected to each other, and the only person they all connected to was Casey. I wonder if all the science presented actually sort of backfired by contributing to an even higher standard of proof than 'reasonable doubt', subconsciously, in the minds of the jury. To me the most compelling evidence was the nonexpert evidence.

I hear what you both are saying - and maybe I am just slow, but when you have no time of death, place of death, cause of death - you need to be sure your story hangs together. Keep in mind, I won't listen to Nancy Grace, so I may be (like the jury) missing information you are both aware of.

As a non-attorney, I don't know what is child abuse as defined by law in Florida....