[dirtbanker]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

I just want common sense brought to this divisive issue.

Just this issue, as you do not want to address bigger issues. Lets put our heads in the sand and believe more gun laws will fix what the media has made us feel outraged about...common sense solution there.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Yes, the 2nd A is racist. That's the ticket. That should do it. BTW, the militia, people, individual, are all the same. There was no National Guard back then! The purpose of the 2nd A was two fold; self protection, and to rise against an oppressive government. Guess who would have a "standing army". That's right, the government. You didn't really read it, did you?

The Minute Men were a standing army of a sort. Going against that of the UK.

The Founding Fathers probably were afraid of Native American attacks as well as those by the British and other foreign powers as there was a history of such attacks in 1789. And, a slave uprising would also be on the minds of anyone familiar with Roman and Greek history as well as the story of Moses and the Exodus out of Egypt. That is a revolt by Jewish slaves against their Egyptian masters. The Five Greatest Slave Rebellions in the United States | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross


The man Alexander Hamilton looks like he was fighting with his own conscience about slavery and was for its abolition. The Washington, Jefferson & Madison Institute: Alexander Hamilton and Slavery

The Roman and Greek slaves were often conquered people of many ethnicities and I do not think race entered into the thinking of the Founding Fathers. In 1789 and later, some slaves were probably similar in appearance to their masters but were still slaves.

Roman history a subject very much of interest to the Founding Fathers also had a lot of stories of government factions fighting other government factions like the Year of the Four Emperors in 69 AD.

The US Civil War was a fight involving rival governmental interests-- slavery being one of the most important issues of this conflict.

[Taltarzac725]

ConSource,

Here is a better discussion of the Founding Fathers and their fears put into why they wrote and passed the 2nd Amendment like it read in 1791.

The Second Amendment did not, however, protect private ownership of military-grade weapons. Then, as now, weapons that people kept for self-defense were very different than those used by fighting forces. The militia, of course, utilized a variety of heavy cannons that bore nothing at all in common with personal firearms. But even the hand-held weapons favored by soldiers were very different than their civilian counterparts. The citizen soldier in the 1780s usually used a heavy, large-caliber smoothbore military musket with fixed bayonet, like the Brown Bess carried by British Regulars. This was far different from the types of small-caliber private arms available at the time like the more common fusil or fowler. As different, in fact, as an M-16 is from a common shotgun.
These military-grade weapons came with military-grade restrictions, because the militia was not a mob. When the militia reported for muster, they became a single fighting force—the “well-regulated militia.” They acted under color of state or federal authority. The militiaman did not obey his own individual conscience. He followed orders from commissioned officers, or he faced military discipline. And the militia stood on the side of order and authority, to preserve the state’s monopoly on the use of force. As noted above, the “well-regulated” militia was most often used in the post-Revolutionary period to dispatch angry mobs, not support them.

[billethkid]

N/A

[billethkid]

Just me being me and commenting, in general....NOBODY in specific......as a result of my experience.....Not intended as a snipe at all.

[Taltarzac725]

Second Amendment | Law Library of Congress

Here is a good link for current information about the 2nd Amendment. If someone finds more recent and credible information please post it.

[Cedwards38]

Originally Posted by dirtbanker

Just this issue, as you do not want to address bigger issues. Lets put our heads in the sand and believe more gun laws will fix what the media has made us feel outraged about...common sense solution there.

I don't need the media to make me outraged at the level of gun violence, and the frequency of public massacres in America. In other countries in the world, gun regulation has resulted in the decrease of gun violence. I'm not talking about sportsman's guns, but rather about guns whose purpose is solely the taking of human life. So, if that won't work here, then what is a common sense solution, because I'm embarrassed, heartbroken, and through only offering prayers and condolences. Certainly, doing nothing will accomplish nothing.

And to clarify, my tone is calm here. I'm not screaming with moral indignance. I really address this to anyone and everyone who might have a workable fix for this all to common problem.

This is not the fault of the Republicans, the Democrats, the Tea Party, Christians, Muslims, Jews, blacks, whites, Wall Street, immigrants, rednecks, or any other group. I point my finger and say this is your fault.......as I look into the mirror, because I don't absolutely demand of my government that something be done right now to stop this senseless loss of life.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I watched the POTUS speech last night in response to the campus shooting in Oregon.


He thinks that changing laws would lesson or stop this kind of awful event.


I don't.


I think only good people would comply. There are enough guns in circulation that bad people would get them and use them for their nefarious causes. AND that people who need to protect themselves could not protect themselves. If I were the person who had to carry cash to the bank for a business, I would want to have a gun. If I lived in a high crime area, I would want to have a gun.

From the proposals to change the gun laws that I saw, they would not keep any good person from purchasing a gun. However, the NRA would make some to believe that. Honestly, I don't know what it will take to get gun laws to change so at the least background checks are taken and elimination of gun shows selling guns without any background check.

Would this eliminate all bad guys from buying a gun on the "street". No, but it likely would save some lives. It would be a start toward perhaps getting assault weapons eliminated from being sold to someone with a documented mental problem.

[tuccillo]

Please stop referring to semi-automatics as assault weapons. They aren't. You can't legally buy assault weapons in this country (some collectors excluded, I believe). I can't speak for all states, but where I moved from background checks were mandatory.

Originally Posted by justjim

From the proposals to change the gun laws that I saw, they would not keep any good person from purchasing a gun. However, the NRA would make some to believe that. Honestly, I don't know what it will take to get gun laws to change so at the least background checks are taken and elimination of gun shows selling guns without any background check.

Would this eliminate all bad guys from buying a gun on the "street". No, but it likely would save some lives. It would be a start toward perhaps getting assault weapons eliminated from being sold to someone with a documented mental problem.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

Please stop referring to semi-automatics as assault weapons. They aren't. You can't legally buy assault weapons in this country (some collectors excluded, I believe). I can't speak for all states, but where I moved from background checks were mandatory.

The gun that killed 26 at Newtown was called an Assault rifle by the Police but some want to call it a semi-automatic---Bushmaster XM-15 Rifle---you certainly don't need this type of weapon to kill a deer or anyother animal. With all due respect, it is the type of weapon that should be banned no matter what type you want to call it IMHO.

However, first we need at the very least, background checks on every gun legally sold to the public in every State. The only way to do that is with a Federal law. Given the NRA lobby and Congress this is highly unlikely. I recently read that the majority of Americans want mandatory background checks and the type of gun used to kill 26 innocent at Newtown banned for sale.

What can be done? "when you're going through hell, keep going" Churchill
The friends and parents of all the victims are sure going through hell.

[FosterMomma]

Although I don't truly understand owning a gun, I'm wondering if anyone could explain the need for a citizen to own a rapid fire weapon. Wouldn't you assume trouble was brewing if someone you knew bought one?

[rjm1cc]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I watched the POTUS speech last night in response to the campus shooting in Oregon.


He thinks that changing laws would lesson or stop this kind of awful event.


I don't.


I think only good people would comply. There are enough guns in circulation that bad people would get them and use them for their nefarious causes. AND that people who need to protect themselves could not protect themselves. If I were the person who had to carry cash to the bank for a business, I would want to have a gun. If I lived in a high crime area, I would want to have a gun.

The question for any politician that is addressing the subject what changes have you proposed since you have been a politician, would have your proposal help in this situation etc.

[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by MiaW1948

Although I don't truly understand owning a gun, I'm wondering if anyone could explain the need for a citizen to own a rapid fire weapon. Wouldn't you assume trouble was brewing if someone you knew bought one?

Someone you know probably does own one, however, not knowing about it probably helps you sleep better a night.

[tuccillo]

Many guns sold today are semi-automatic. For example, all clip based pistols are semi-automatics. Many shotguns are semi-automatics. Many rifles are semi-automatics. You can call double action revolvers semi-automatics. Assault weapons are fully automatic. You can't buy those. Using the term "assault rifles" is a an attempt to politicize a tragedy caused by a mental health issue.

Originally Posted by justjim

The gun that killed 26 at Newtown was called an Assault rifle by the Police but some want to call it a semi-automatic---Bushmaster XM-15 Rifle---you certainly don't need this type of weapon to kill a deer or anyother animal. With all due respect, it is the type of weapon that should be banned no matter what type you want to call it IMHO.

However, first we need at the very least, background checks on every gun legally sold to the public in every State. The only way to do that is with a Federal law. Given the NRA lobby and Congress this is highly unlikely. I recently read that the majority of Americans want mandatory background checks and the type of gun used to kill 26 innocent at Newtown banned for sale.

What can be done? "when you're going through hell, keep going" Churchill
The friends and parents of all the victims are sure going through hell.

[dirtbanker]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

I don't need the media to make me outraged at the level of gun violence, and the frequency of public massacres in America. In other countries in the world, gun regulation has resulted in the decrease of gun violence . I'm not talking about sportsman's guns, but rather about guns whose purpose is solely the taking of human life. So, if that won't work here, then what is a common sense solution, because I'm embarrassed, heartbroken, and through only offering prayers and condolences. Certainly, doing nothing will accomplish nothing.

And to clarify, my tone is calm here. I'm not screaming with moral indignance. I really address this to anyone and everyone who might have a workable fix for this all to common problem.

This is not the fault of the Republicans, the Democrats, the Tea Party, Christians, Muslims, Jews, blacks, whites, Wall Street, immigrants, rednecks, or any other group. I point my finger and say this is your fault.......as I look into the mirror, because I don't absolutely demand of my government that something be done right now to stop this senseless loss of life.

Not sure why you felt the need to quote me if you just wanted to talk about yourself...?

Please present your source for "other countries in the world, gun regulation has resulted in the decrease of gun violence".

Love the line "This is not the fault of the Republicans, the Democrats, the Tea Party, Christians, Muslims, Jews, blacks, whites, Wall Street, immigrants, rednecks, or any other group". What about Pacific Islanders, Native Americans, or just Dramatized Idiots?

What do you want your government to do? Maybe they can find a cure for mental illness (the kind of mentally ill that want to take the lives of others for nothing more than the recognition, and they don't care if they have to shoot them or drive over them to kill)...