[Taltarzac725]

19 Years After Passing Strict Gun Control Laws, Here's What Happened in Australia - Mic

This article was quite interesting.

Personally, I do not think you can ever have too much gun control because as soon as a law is up that challenges the NRA, their lawyers as well as others will look for loopholes in these laws. And gun manufacturers will create guns that slip through the wordings of the laws based upon how they operate.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I watched the POTUS speech last night in response to the campus shooting in Oregon.


He thinks that changing laws would lesson or stop this kind of awful event.


I don't.


I think only good people would comply. There are enough guns in circulation that bad people would get them and use them for their nefarious causes. AND that people who need to protect themselves could not protect themselves. If I were the person who had to carry cash to the bank for a business, I would want to have a gun. If I lived in a high crime area, I would want to have a gun.

Very good post. Good common sense seems in short supply in D.C. today.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Isn't protecting us a primary function of our government?

What do I want my government to do? How about:

(1) Stop the indiscriminate sale of guns at gun shows to anyone with money, without even conducting a criminal background check?

(2) Unshackle the CDC to allow them to study gun violence and make recommendations? The CDC, the nation's public health agency, is now restricted from making recommendations on sensible ways to reduce gun violence.

(3) Ban high capacity magazines and assault weapons?

(4) Provide adequate funding for the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness?

(5) Conduct a nationwide gun buyback to reduce the number of weapons?

I don't know that the primary function of government is to protect us. It's function is to protect our rights. Maybe that's just a matter of semantics but the government should be protecting our right to bear arms.

1) I agree that something should be done about gun show sales. But most gun crimes are committed with guns that have been obtained illegally. Also how is it possible to prevent the secondary sales of guns. There are laws that say that if I own gun that I'm not allowed to sell it to someone without proper paperwork. But what if I break the law? I sell the gun and report it stolen. Another example of how laws do not protect us. They only provide a way to punish people that break them.

2) I agree. But congress will never allow it because it takes power away from them. They create anti gun laws that do nothing and then take credit for trying to fix the problem. It's all about getting re-elected.

3) The latest mass murder and several others were committed with a handguns. Some of the shooters had multiple handguns and it only take a few seconds to reload most handguns. Only about 300 of the 33,000 guns deaths in this country in 2013 were from rifles. Banning "assault weapons" is simply silly since there is no definition of what an "assault rifle" is. The laws have been passed have banned "scary looking" guns. They have banned things like attachments that keep the barrel cool and grips that make the gun more comfortable to hold and shoot. Besides, high capacity magazines and "assault weapons have already been banned and the mass murders continue.

4) Absolutely yes. I couldn't agree more. Stop wasting money by passing laws trying to control gun ownership by responsible, law abiding people and put it toward mental health research and treatment. But I see this as highly unlikely because there is nothing for politicians to take credit for here. This wouldn't help them get re-election votes. And observing our government in operation for 60 years, I don't recall them transferring money from a program that doesn't work to try one that does. They simply want more money.

5) Again, the criminals are not going to turn in their guns. In states where they have instituted these buy back programs, most of the returned guns were from old soldiers and kids of soldiers that had guns laying around for years. Gun buy back programs by states have been ineffective. In fact it has been found that many people turned in old non-working firearms only to purchase better ones.

[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

19 Years After Passing Strict Gun Control Laws, Here's What Happened in Australia - Mic

This article was quite interesting.

Personally, I do not think you can ever have too much gun control because as soon as a law is up that challenges the NRA, their lawyers as well as others will look for loopholes in these laws. And gun manufacturers will create guns that slip through the wordings of the laws based upon how they operate.

Lawyers never think that there are too many laws. We already have laws that make homicide and manslaughter illegal, with stiff punishment for both -- how's that working out?

[FosterMomma]

If the emotional element on this subject was removed, it seems to make sense that we would at least want guns out of the hands of the wrong people. And possibly go the next step and want certain types of guns that make killing several people at one time to be impossible to get.

In my opinion, a large percentage of the political and practical problem centers around the fact that it's socially acceptable to be armed.

In countries like Canada, Australia, Sweden etc. you would be hard pressed to find a neighbour who owns a gun and most definitely not teenagers who do. If you knew of a teenager with guns, you would be worried and talking to their parents. It goes without saying that mental health is an issue in these mass killings and that's a problem no country has absolutely solved but at least it's not the "norm".

It may take decades but society can change its attitude given enough time and education... think about the difference in how people see smoking; environmental responsibility; health screenings... these are all things that have gradually changed because of education and a universal will to better a community. I choose to be hopeful that people and government will put common sense ahead of politically expedient ideas.

[MDLNB]

There are twice as many knife related assaults in the UK as gun related in America (per capita or ratio by population). UK has a very strict gun law. There is violence everywhere in the world.

Interesting point: There are far more death by doctors than by guns.

Liberals insist that deporting a few million illegal aliens is impossible so they wish to legalize them. Liberals believe that they can control a billion legally owned guns in America.

If a conservative doesn't believe in guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a liberal doesn't believe in guns, he wants to ban them.

If we don't enforce laws and punish the violators, then we have no deterrent to gun violence. Instead of making guns harder for the honest, good citizen to own why not punish anyone that uses a gun in the commission of a crime. Novel idea, huh? Stop putting the animals back on the street that abuse the law, especially when they commit a crime using a weapon.

There is no way that you are going to keep the mentally unstable person from committing a crime of violence until it happens. In America, you are innocent and not charged until you commit an unlawful act. Trying to put someone away before they do wrong is unconstitutional. Besides, who is going to make the decision that someone is acting dangerously or INTENDS to act dangerously? Sorry but we don't have the gov. run Minority Report working yet.

There are over a billion guns owned in this country. Instead of the gov trying to control the good citizens that own them, why not punish the ones that abuse the right? There are a lot less of those(latter) than the former.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Very good post. Good common sense seems in short supply in D.C. today.

Nobody is trying to take guns from good law abiding citizens. To think there is a "conspiracy" to take our guns from us defies common sense. I have owned a gun sense i was 12 or 13 years old. (Well, my Dad actually owned and bought it) I would be the first to defend the right for good law abiding citizens to have a gun for hunting and personal defense. Every attempt to pass common sense gun legislation in D.C. Is stopped in its tracks by the gun lobby.

Did you know money matters in this country? Over 90% of elections are won by the person having the most money to spend on his/her campaign.

As long as the gun lobby has the most money to block any reasonable legislation, we are just kidding ourselves that common sense will prevail on this issue of reasonable gun laws. Fore!

[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by justjim

Nobody is trying to take guns from good law abiding citizens. To think there is a "conspiracy" to take our guns from us defies common sense. I have owned a gun sense i was 12 or 13 years old. (Well, my Dad actually owned and bought it) I would be the first to defend the right for good law abiding citizens to have a gun for hunting and personal defense. Every attempt to pass common sense gun legislation in D.C. Is stopped in its tracks by the gun lobby.

Did you know money matters in this country? Over 90% of elections are won by the person having the most money to spend on his/her campaign.

As long as the gun lobby has the most money to block any reasonable legislation, we are just kidding ourselves that common sense will prevail on this issue of reasonable gun laws. Fore!

The problem as I see it is that "reasonable legislation" means different things to different people.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by justjim

Nobody is trying to take guns from good law abiding citizens. To think there is a "conspiracy" to take our guns from us defies common sense. I have owned a gun sense i was 12 or 13 years old. (Well, my Dad actually owned and bought it) I would be the first to defend the right for good law abiding citizens to have a gun for hunting and personal defense. Every attempt to pass common sense gun legislation in D.C. Is stopped in its tracks by the gun lobby.

Did you know money matters in this country? Over 90% of elections are won by the person having the most money to spend on his/her campaign.

As long as the gun lobby has the most money to block any reasonable legislation, we are just kidding ourselves that common sense will prevail on this issue of reasonable gun laws. Fore!

What kind of common sense or reasonable gun laws are you advocating that aren't already existing?

"Reasonable" is defined differently by every individual.

In the state, where I purchased my firearms, every gun show I attended required you to fill out paperwork for a background investigation, and wait a mandatory time period.
In that state, when I sold a gun to another, I had to fill out paperwork and bill of sale to do it legally.
To get a CCW you had to attend a certified two day course in gun law and safety, and pass a test. You also had a practical gun handling and shooting portion.
I can not verify how many other states have the same requirements, but I do know that FL has similar requirements for CCW certification.

Even with all these rules and laws, I would defy anyone to show me a viable test to determine whether a person is mentally sound enough to handle a firearm. Whether a person purchases a firearm through legal means, illegally or stealing it, that same gun can kill. There is no test for the illegally obtained firearm.

I said it before, we need stricter adherence to penalties when one violates the law to work as a deterrent. As far as mentally unstable perpetrators are concerned, no amount of rules, laws or deterrents will suffice to avoid all tragedies. By the time you realize that a subject is that far gone, he will have already perpetrated his destruction.

As with the nuclear weapon race, the country with the largest threat has the power over the other countries. We have been able to keep the world stable because we have had the bully power, thus maintaining world peace. Thinking of terrorists as a mentally unstable criminal, if they obtain a weapon they use it regardless of what is good, right or moral (or power). You can use the same comparison with gun crimes. There are no rules/laws when it comes to the mentally unbalanced. Rules and laws are just there to keep the honest man honest.

[Cedwards38]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I don't know that the primary function of government is to protect us. It's function is to protect our rights. Maybe that's just a matter of semantics but the government should be protecting our right to bear arms.

1) I agree that something should be done about gun show sales. But most gun crimes are committed with guns that have been obtained illegally. Also how is it possible to prevent the secondary sales of guns. There are laws that say that if I own gun that I'm not allowed to sell it to someone without proper paperwork. But what if I break the law? I sell the gun and report it stolen. Another example of how laws do not protect us. They only provide a way to punish people that break them.

2) I agree. But congress will never allow it because it takes power away from them. They create anti gun laws that do nothing and then take credit for trying to fix the problem. It's all about getting re-elected.

3) The latest mass murder and several others were committed with a handguns. Some of the shooters had multiple handguns and it only take a few seconds to reload most handguns. Only about 300 of the 33,000 guns deaths in this country in 2013 were from rifles. Banning "assault weapons" is simply silly since there is no definition of what an "assault rifle" is. The laws have been passed have banned "scary looking" guns. They have banned things like attachments that keep the barrel cool and grips that make the gun more comfortable to hold and shoot. Besides, high capacity magazines and "assault weapons have already been banned and the mass murders continue.

4) Absolutely yes. I couldn't agree more. Stop wasting money by passing laws trying to control gun ownership by responsible, law abiding people and put it toward mental health research and treatment. But I see this as highly unlikely because there is nothing for politicians to take credit for here. This wouldn't help them get re-election votes. And observing our government in operation for 60 years, I don't recall them transferring money from a program that doesn't work to try one that does. They simply want more money.

5) Again, the criminals are not going to turn in their guns. In states where they have instituted these buy back programs, most of the returned guns were from old soldiers and kids of soldiers that had guns laying around for years. Gun buy back programs by states have been ineffective. In fact it has been found that many people turned in old non-working firearms only to purchase better ones.

Thank you for your post. I have great respect for a person who can express their ideas and opinions in a calm, articulate, and respectful discourse, as you did.

Clearly we have some different thoughts on this often contentious issue, but you analyzed my ideas, and I analyzed yours, and we shared that without any animosity.

The really good news is that we did, in fact agree on three of the five issues. That's the making for a compromise, and a start at addressing the problem. Why can't our Congress do that?

Thanks again Doc!

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

I quoted you because you suggested that the media was responsible for making Americans feel outraged at gun violence, and I wanted to make the point that it is the actual killing that outrages me and not the media reporting of the killing. Without the media reporting we wouldn't even know it happened. But thanks for asking. I'm glad I had the opportunity to explain myself.

As for sources, here are a few:

New Statistics Indicate Gun Control Works | The Institute of Politics at Harvard University

Hard Evidence: does gun control work?

Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence

http://www.newsweek.com/gun-control-...untries-379105

I'm glad you love my line that suggests that the fault for gun violence does not lie with any one particular group, and I agree that it is also not the fault of Pacific Islanders, Native Americans, or even Dramatized Idiots, though clearly there are plenty of the last group involved in the debate. My point, as you well know, is that it is my fault, and yours, and everyone's for allowing gutless politicians to think that prayers and condolences instead of legislation is enough.

Maybe we can find a cure for mental illness, but in the meantime we need to provide for appropriate diagnosis and treatment of mental illness, and that might be a good start. Yep, it requires tax money, but if it saves lives would that expense be worth it? Isn't protecting us a primary function of our government?

What do I want my government to do? How about:

(1) Stop the indiscriminate sale of guns at gun shows to anyone with money, without even conducting a criminal background check?

(2) Unshackle the CDC to allow them to study gun violence and make recommendations? The CDC, the nation's public health agency, is now restricted from making recommendations on sensible ways to reduce gun violence.

(3) Ban high capacity magazines and assault weapons?

(4) Provide adequate funding for the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness?

(5) Conduct a nationwide gun buyback to reduce the number of weapons?

I'm certainly no expert. These are just off the top of my head, without any opportunity to have an open and honest discussion with others of good will on the solutions to this growing problem. I'm sure there are more, and you probably have some constructive ideas to share too.

1. False premise that dealers at gun shows don't have to conduct a background check.
2. Guns are not a disease. CDC has no expertise in guns, period.
3. Most mass killings are with handguns. None were with assault weapons as far as I know.
4. It not about money. The left will not allow mentally ill people to be institutionalized, nor will they allow personal medical records be shared with ATF.
5. Waste of taxpayers money. Detroit, Chicago, and other cities do this repeatedly, and still there is uncontrolled gun violence.

Please list all the media articles you have read regarding a woman or old person defending themselves with a gun. There are literally hundreds of thousands a year. Some studies estimate over 1 million. But you rarely read about them or see them on TV. Those incidents don't fit the left media narrative.

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by outlaw

1. False premise that dealers at gun shows don't have to conduct a background check.
2. Guns are not a disease. CDC has no expertise in guns, period.
3. Most mass killings are with handguns. None were with assault weapons as far as I know.
4. It not about money. The left will not allow mentally ill people to be institutionalized, nor will they allow personal medical records be shared with ATF.
5. Waste of taxpayers money. Detroit, Chicago, and other cities do this repeatedly, and still there is uncontrolled gun violence.

Please list all the media articles you have read regarding a woman or old person defending themselves with a gun. There are literally hundreds of thousands a year. Some studies estimate over 1 million. But you rarely read about them or see them on TV. Those incidents don't fit the left media narrative.

There are also private sales at gun shows which, depending on the state, may or may not be required to do background checks.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by outlaw

1. False premise that dealers at gun shows don't have to conduct a background check.
2. Guns are not a disease. CDC has no expertise in guns, period.
3. Most mass killings are with handguns. None were with assault weapons as far as I know.
4. It not about money. The left will not allow mentally ill people to be institutionalized, nor will they allow personal medical records be shared with ATF.
5. Waste of taxpayers money. Detroit, Chicago, and other cities do this repeatedly, and still there is uncontrolled gun violence.

Please list all the media articles you have read regarding a woman or old person defending themselves with a gun. There are literally hundreds of thousands a year. Some studies estimate over 1 million. But you rarely read about them or see them on TV. Those incidents don't fit the left media narrative.

[Taltarzac725]

The Rise of Gun Violence as a Public Health Issue - US News

Doctors and nurses deal with the immediate and long term effects of gun and other types of violence every day and probably would be some of the most practical people to voice solutions to these problems.

I would want to hear their opinions long before hearing what some blowhard looking for votes is going to say to get the best sound bite or photo op.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Walter123

There are also private sales at gun shows which, depending on the state, may or may not be required to do background checks.

Perhaps. I also know of moonshine that is illegally sold without a tax stamp. There are some folks who drive on revoked or suspended drivers licenses. Some medical marijuana is sold to non-prescription customers.

How do you suggest that we keep people from breaking the law?