[Irish Rover]

Seriously!!!!! Is this the dumbest question ever asked on this site?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

I think I'll give this a try, even though I think (blank) answered it well.

I don't think so. What was expressed was fatalism, as follows: "People die all the time from other activities so we should just accept death as inevitable."

Our sports like football and basketball are meant to test our physical strength, speed, and skill against one another or against a standard. They are governed by rules and hopefully by a sense of fair play.

Good so far!

Whenever we pit our strength and speed against someone else's, injuries are possible.

What about death? Don't forget death. I just did a search to see if I could get an idea of how serious a problem this might be. Up until now, I really wasn't sure.

I searched: "How many people have died playing football." To my surprise I found that 325 boys and men have died (directly or indirectly) from 1982 - 2008. I would say it's a fairly significant number. Wouldn't you?

Hazing has none of these elements. It is an institutionalized form of bullying meant to cause pain and humiliation as some sort of entry fee into the organization doing the hazing.

So football has better intentions. I suppose that's something football fans can hang their hat on while forgetting how many have died. Not to mention serious long lasting injuries.

Just because two completely activities can lead to the same conclusion (injury or death), it is faulty logic to say that the two activities are then the same.

You may be right on that point. One has better intentions. Although many might say that hazing starts out as a way to have some fun. And some might say that there are football players who are also bullies.

[zcaveman]

If this thread was just about hazing as in the FAMU hazing I guess there could be a meaningful dialogue. But to compare it to football is ludicrous.

As far back as I can remember there was always hazing in sports. When you joined the baseball, football, basketball or track team, and you were one of the newbies you were subjected to some kind of hazing. It was expected. Carrying the equipment, hot-rub in your jock strap, singing songs, etc. But it was nothing demeaning or physically damaging. Even the pro rookies are subjected to hazing.

What they did at FAMU was beyond hazing. It was brutalizing of the rookies and they should be punished.

[Mikeod]

To distill it down, one is an activity you enter at your own volition, hopefully aware of the risks and benefits of participation. The other is an activity you are subjected to usually against your will without prior awareness of the risks. BIG difference.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by mikeod

To distill it down, one is an activity you enter at your own volition, hopefully aware of the risks and benefits of participation. The other is an activity you are subjected to usually against your will without prior awareness of the risks. BIG difference.

Nailed it! As usual.

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

I think I'll give this a try, even though I think RichieLion answered it well. Our sports like football and basketball are meant to test our physical strength, speed, and skill against one another or against a standard. They are governed by rules and hopefully by a sense of fair play. Whenever we pit our strength and speed against someone else's, injuries are possible. Hazing has none of these elements. It is an institutionalized form of bullying meant to cause pain and humiliation as some sort of entry fee into the organization doing the hazing. Just because two completely activities can lead to the same conclusion (injury or death), it is faulty logic to say that the two activities are then the same.

Excellent post.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

Excellent post.

Yes, if you ignore the fact of 325 deaths over 26 years, it's not bad. Not to mention numerous long-lasting or life-long injuries like concussions. All one need do is ignore the facts.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Yes, if you ignore the fact of 325 deaths over 26 years, it's not bad. Not to mention numerous long-lasting or life-long injuries like concussions. All one need do is ignore the facts.

Well, I think that diverting folks from enjoying football is a hopeless and futile endeavor. Even making it completely safe is not possible in my opinion.

I guess that in playing or living life, we have to take on some risks or life would lose a lot of it's zest and it's meaning.

If we would avoid the risk of dying, we would never give birth to children, or drive a car or leave our homes. We would never join the military and defend our country or be a police officer or a fireman or a doctor or a paramedic or a nurse or a teacher. There is risk of death in some ways in all we do.

Team sports help us to learn to work together toward a common goal and keep us healthy and active.

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well, I think that diverting folks from enjoying football is a hopeless and futile endeavor. Even making it completely safe is not possible in my opinion.

I personally am not, nor ever have been interested in playing...which is a good thing since I am as clumsy as a cow on a crutch. But I do know this, you won't change kids from wanting to play and adults from finding it interesting to watch.

I am saddened by the number of concussions and lifelong injuries that occur to young people who play contact sports...but I guess that in playing or living life, we have to take on some risks or life would lose a lot of it's zest and it's meaning.

If we would avoid the risk of dying, we would never give birth to children, or drive a car or leave our homes. We would never join the military and defend our country or be a police officer or a fireman or a doctor or a paramedic or a nurse or a teacher. There is risk of death in some ways in all we do.

Team sports help us to learn to work together toward a common goal and keep us healthy and active.

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

There are many risks in life that if we don't take robs life of much of what is important and memorable.

When I was about 14 I had an accident on my bicycle and broke my clavicle. I could have broken my neck. Maybe I shouldn't have been allowed to ride bicycles. But, I would have missed all the great adventures and the places I'd seen and the people I met.

Live and let live. Stop trying to control other people's lives because of your own fears and hangups. Believe me, nobody appreciates a buttinsky.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

There are many risks in life that if we don't take robs life of much of what is important and memorable.

When I was about 14 I had an accident on my bicycle and broke my clavicle. I could have broken my neck. Maybe I shouldn't have been allowed to ride bicycles. But, I would have missed all the great adventures and the places I'd seen and the people I met.

Live and let live. Stop trying to control other people's lives because of your own fears and hangups. Believe me, nobody appreciates a buttinsky.

I too was brought to a hospital due to a bicycle accident and I was also injured while playing HS football and had to have numerous sports theropy sessions at RPI in Troy, NY. Today I still have dead nerve ends on my leg from that injury. Despite those experiences, I still agree with everything you have stated.

[redwitch]

One of the most dangerous sports is horseback riding. The most sports injuries in TV are caused by pickleball. I broke my elbow going to the bathroom in the dark. There is risk in anything we do.

Hazing is a form of bullying used to see if you're "acceptable" to a group. It is not like the conditioning required to play a sport. Football and other sports do not go out of their way to humiliate you. Nor is there deliberate harm. There is protection for football in the way of helmets, pads, rules. Hazing has no protection and no rules. So, how can you compare the two?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well, I think that diverting folks from enjoying football is a hopeless and futile endeavor. Even making it completely safe is not possible in my opinion.

It's not my endeavor. I'm not an anti-football activist. This website is the first time I ever brought it up. Eventually, it will fade away and I will most likely never bring it up again.

I personally am not, nor ever have been interested in playing...which is a good thing since I am as clumsy as a cow on a crutch. But I do know this, you won't change kids from wanting to play and adults from finding it interesting to watch.

I had loads of fun playing touch football in grammer school. There wasn't any formal program but it was still fun. So I'm not trying to change kids from wanting to play or adults from watching.

I am saddened by the number of concussions and lifelong injuries that occur to young people who play contact sports...but I guess that in playing or living life, we have to take on some risks or life would lose a lot of it's zest and it's meaning.

True, so lets just reduce the risks. Kids can have lots of fun without knocking their brains out or killing themselves.

If we would avoid the risk of dying, we would never give birth to children, or drive a car or leave our homes. We would never join the military and defend our country or be a police officer or a fireman or a doctor or a paramedic or a nurse or a teacher. There is risk of death in some ways in all we do.

Yes, but in all of those endeavors, measures are taken to reduce risks.

Team sports help us to learn to work together toward a common goal and keep us healthy and active.

And that could be accomplished with touch football. (Hey, no snickering from the peanut gallery.)

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

You might understand it more by going to the political board.

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well, I think that diverting folks from enjoying football is a hopeless and futile endeavor. Even making it completely safe is not possible in my opinion.

I personally am not, nor ever have been interested in playing...which is a good thing since I am as clumsy as a cow on a crutch. But I do know this, you won't change kids from wanting to play and adults from finding it interesting to watch.

I am saddened by the number of concussions and lifelong injuries that occur to young people who play contact sports...but I guess that in playing or living life, we have to take on some risks or life would lose a lot of it's zest and it's meaning.

If we would avoid the risk of dying, we would never give birth to children, or drive a car or leave our homes. We would never join the military and defend our country or be a police officer or a fireman or a doctor or a paramedic or a nurse or a teacher. There is risk of death in some ways in all we do.

Team sports help us to learn to work together toward a common goal and keep us healthy and active.

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

Well said. Excellent post.

A horse has four legs and a chair has four legs.

Logical to say that a horse is the same as a chair? I'm sorry to say that I don't seem to be able to correlate hazing with sports. I am well aware of the long term effects of playing football but as Gracie said, it won't be stopped or banned.

A cow on a crutch? Gracie you are a hoot.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

Well said. Excellent post.

A horse has four legs and a chair has four legs.

Logical to say that a horse is the same as a chair? I'm sorry to say that I don't seem to be able to correlate hazing with sports. I am well aware of the long term effects of playing football but as Gracie said, it won't be stopped or banned.

A cow on a crutch? Gracie you are a hoot.

I am so glad you are back and you like my humor.

Hugs to you, fella!!!

[2BNTV]

Same to you Gracie.