[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

There are many risks in life that if we don't take robs life of much of what is important and memorable.

When I was about 14 I had an accident on my bicycle and broke my clavicle. I could have broken my neck. Maybe I shouldn't have been allowed to ride bicycles. But, I would have missed all the great adventures and the places I'd seen and the people I met.

Live and let live.

Exactly. And the same may apply here on this thread.

Stop trying to control other people's lives because of your own fears and hangups.

You want me to stop? That sounds controlling!

Believe me, nobody appreciates a buttinsky.

Even so, I appreciate you butting in on this thread because I may have learned something from it.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Irish Rover

Seriously!!!!! Is this the dumbest question ever asked on this site?

I think you may perceive it as dumb because you are suddenly confronted with something you have never seriously considered before.

It's very cleaver of you to try to change the topic to "dumbest question ever". But lets get back to the topic of this thread: With all the hundreds of deaths and serious injuries over the past couple of decades, why has football not been banned while hazing has?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

If this thread was just about hazing as in the FAMU hazing I guess there could be a meaningful dialogue. But to compare it to football is ludicrous.

As far back as I can remember there was always hazing in sports. When you joined the baseball, football, basketball or track team, and you were one of the newbies you were subjected to some kind of hazing. It was expected. Carrying the equipment, hot-rub in your jock strap, singing songs, etc. But it was nothing demeaning or physically damaging. Even the pro rookies are subjected to hazing.

What they did at FAMU was beyond hazing. It was brutalizing of the rookies and they should be punished.

Your contention is that hazing, except for the FAMU incident, is not all that bad. Well then football, with 325 deaths of men and boys from 1982 - 2008, seems to be far worse. Why has it not been banned along with hazing?

[quirky3]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Your contention is that hazing, except for the FAMU incident, is not all that bad. Well then football, with 325 deaths of men and boys from 1982 - 2008, seems to be far worse. Why has it not been banned along with hazing?

There is a reality here that helps explain it - not saying it is good or bad. Hazing does not make money for schools or professional sports teams, advertisers or TV stations. People don't wear jerseys with the numbers of their favorite hazers on them. For better or worse, football is built into American culture and economy at so many levels, and people depend on it financially. I think that explains why it is not banned. Maybe over time it will be evolve into a kinder, gentler sport - but maybe not.

[zcaveman]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Your contention is that hazing, except for the FAMU incident, is not all that bad. Well then football, with 325 deaths of men and boys from 1982 - 2008, seems to be far worse. Why has it not been banned along with hazing?

What I was trying to say is that hazing is a rite of passage. Extreme hazing (ala FAMU) should not be allowed. I have not checked but there are deaths and serious injuries in almost all sports. Do you want to ban them also? Or are you just picking on football for some reason?

If you were to do as statistic study of the number of people that play football versus the 325 deaths from 1982 - 2008 (what happened to 2009 to the present?), you will find it is a very small percentage. I am not saying that even one death is worth it but in the statistical model it is very small.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

....." Or are you just picking on football for some reason?

Glad you asked. I'm learning as I go along and I just learned who Patty Sexton is by doing a search online. Try searching, "Give some thought to call to ban HS football". From what I understand, she is a Penn. school board member and a teacher. 1) She doesn't think taxes should fund HS football. 2) She worries about the possibility of expensive law suits (which would put tax payers at risk) and 3) she worries about serious long lasting injuries to students.

If you were to do as statistic study of the number of people that play football versus the 325 deaths from 1982 - 2008 (what happened to 2009 to the present?), you will find it is a very small percentage. I am not saying that even one death is worth it but in the statistical model it is very small.

Thanks. I understand it's not a lot, especially if you look at the number of deaths per year and then per month.

[2BNTV]

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by mikeod

To distill it down, one is an activity you enter at your own volition, hopefully aware of the risks and benefits of participation. The other is an activity you are subjected to usually against your will without prior awareness of the risks. BIG difference.

OMG! You nailed it? No, I don't think so.

It starts in high school and at that young age they often think they're indestructible. They get sucked in by the "glamour" and excitement, or whatever you choose to call it. The other (hazing) they're anxious to prove they're tough enough to take it to be accepted. Again, they still think they are indestructible. Acceptance is everything as it is in football.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by redwitch

One of the most dangerous sports is horseback riding. The most sports injuries in TV are caused by pickleball. I broke my elbow going to the bathroom in the dark. There is risk in anything we do.

Hazing is a form of bullying used to see if you're "acceptable" to a group. It is not like the conditioning required to play a sport. Football and other sports do not go out of their way to humiliate you. Nor is there deliberate harm. There is protection for football in the way of helmets, pads, rules. Hazing has no protection and no rules. So, how can you compare the two?

Regardless of intentions, whether good or bad, we can compare the resulting injuries and deaths. I don't know how many serious injuries or deaths can be attributed to hazing but their's a fair number of injuries and deaths caused by football. A search turned up 325 deaths of men and boys from 1982 - 2008. The numbers of injuries may be more difficult to compare but I assume there are a lot of injuries in football.

For more information on this subject, search: "Give some thought to call to ban HS football"

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by quirky3

There is a reality here that helps explain it - not saying it is good or bad. Hazing does not make money for schools or professional sports teams, advertisers or TV stations. People don't wear jerseys with the numbers of their favorite hazers on them. For better or worse, football is built into American culture and economy at so many levels, and people depend on it financially. I think that explains why it is not banned. Maybe over time it will be evolve into a kinder, gentler sport - but maybe not.

You made some excellent points. And I got a chuckle out of your statement, "People don't wear jerseys with the numbers of their favorite hazers on them."

I first heard about this issue on the radio (Friday?) and football was supported 100% by a popular talk-show host. I knew immediately that it had "industry" written all over it. The food industry, that is, because football is a bananza for the fast food industry. And radio earns a lot of money advertising fast food. So it's all connected and "built into American culture and economy at so many levels," as you stated so well. We're on the same page!!

For more information on how this got started, search: "Give some thought to call to ban HS football"

[graciegirl]

Happy Father's Day. VillagesPl.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

You want me to stop? That sounds controlling!

It's only a suggestion. Far be it from me to be able to control your compulsions.

[quirky3]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

You made some excellent points. And I got a chuckle out of your statement, "People don't wear jerseys with the numbers of their favorite hazers on them."

I first heard about this issue on the radio (Friday?) and football was supported 100% by a popular talk-show host. I knew immediately that it had "industry" written all over it. The food industry, that is, because football is a bananza for the fast food industry. And radio earns a lot of money advertising fast food. So it's all connected and "built into American culture and economy at so many levels," as you stated so well. We're on the same page!!

For more information on how this got started, search: "Give some thought to call to ban HS football"

Actually, to your point, wouldn't it be nice if human nature evolved to a point where there was a lot less violence overall. I sometimes think (not too weird, but OK) about what impression a person from another planet would get when visiting here. A peek at the evaluation sheet for humans - a rating scale from 1 to 10. Still engages in tribal warfare. Ends lives in many domestic, international and legal situations. Entertainment seeks fights (hockey/boxing), crashes (racing)....you get the idea. But hopefully we have come a long way
and will continue to evolve. And your suggestions are one way to do that.

[Cedwards38]

I supposed any school district sanctioned sport, or activity for that matter, has it's dangers. Maybe the difference is that people choose to participate in football, but hazing is imposed upon them? Danger is all around us, in everything we do, no matter our age. We choose to take our risks in life every day when we drive, walk, swim, etc. Hazing is a crime of violence. I get your point, but I think there is a big difference.

[Tiger Lady]

Why don't we all just sit at home and wait to die? What fun!!!!!