[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Blondie

I would never ride my motorcycle when it rains because cleaning the chrome is a chore!

Does Dagwood know about this?

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by memason

I played golf with a guy today that said his boss lives next to the home that got hit by lightning last Saturday and burned...they have kissing lanais, according to my friend. You, like I, will have to judge if the account is factual or not.

At any rate, he said that all of the homes in that area have lightning rods installed, so this house that was hit did have lightning rods on it. However, lightning did not hit the rods...

Kinda makes you wonder...

The home that was destroyed in Pinellas last month DID NOT have a lightning protection system. None of the nine homes destroyed by lightning in the last 10 years had lightning protection nor did the home that was destroyed in the Fairways subdivision about 600 ft outside The Villages. We have heard from 12 homeowners with lightning protection who told us they took a direct hit without damage. This is consistant with the history and research over the last 262 years.

[eremite06]

How do those 12 homeowners with lightning protection know they took a direct hit? With 100 million volts hitting that ground wire, I'm sure it would melt the wire as well as singe the surrounding area. That's damage, right?

I've seen large oak trees that have been hit and it splits them right down the middle with a large visible black singe.

[memason]

Originally Posted by Lightning

The home that was destroyed in Pinellas last month DID NOT have a lightning protection system. None of the nine homes destroyed by lightning in the last 10 years had lightning protection nor did the home that was destroyed in the Fairways subdivision about 600 ft outside The Villages. We have heard from 12 homeowners with lightning protection who told us they took a direct hit without damage. This is consistant with the history and research over the last 262 years.

That's quiet possible, but you're telling me that research on this topic goes all the way back to the year 1752 ???

Actually, destroyed and just being struck are two very different things. A firefighter friends tells me that most house fires, caused by lightning, are small, but if gone unnoticed, develop into large fires; thereby, destroying the home. In addition, I believe the home destroyed in Pinellas was unoccupied at the time of the strike and the fire was out of control, before it was noticed by neighbors.

At any rate, installing lightning protection is a risk based decision...

[Lightning]

Research and history has demonstrated that Lightning Protection Systems (LPS), commonly called lightning rods, do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the national standard on lightning published by the National Fire Protection Association in NFPA-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems. 2014 edition. Studies have shown that when they don’t work as designed it is due to a lack of maintenance or neglect over time. LPS have no moving parts and only three components; air terminals, down conductors, and driven ground rods – usually 3 or 4 of 8 ft in length. Homeowners with LPS should have the installer check them out every 3 to 5 years but immediately if you have added on (including a pool cage), re-roofed, had extensive landscaping around the foundation, or if you believe that you took a lightning strike.

If you want to learn why they work you should go to the NFPA website and bring up NFPA-780 that is a read only format. Then go to page 57, Principles of Lightning Protection that addresses research models, the positioning of air terminal, the physics of lightning attachment, and the cone of protection.

Here are other references:
• The Art and Science of Lightning Protection by University of Florida professor Dr. Martin Uman, that can be found in The Villages Library.
• The Basis of Conventional Lightning Protection Technology by the federal interagency user group.
• The Report of the Committee on Atmospheric and Space Electricity of the American Geophysical Union of the Scientific Basis for Traditional Lightning Protection Systems, chaired by Dr. Vladimir Rakov of the University of Florida.
• American Metrological Society also published a position paper on LPS that can found on line

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Lightning

Research and history has demonstrated that Lightning Protection Systems (LPS), commonly called lightning rods, do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the national standard on lightning published by the National Fire Protection Association in NFPA-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems. 2014 edition. Studies have shown that when they don’t work as designed it is due to a lack of maintenance or neglect over time. LPS have no moving parts and only three components; air terminals, down conductors, and driven ground rods – usually 3 or 4 of 8 ft in length. Homeowners with LPS should have the installer check them out every 3 to 5 years but immediately if you have added on (including a pool cage), re-roofed, had extensive landscaping around the foundation, or if you believe that you took a lightning strike.

If you want to learn why they work you should go to the NFPA website and bring up NFPA-780 that is a read only format. Then go to page 57, Principles of Lightning Protection that addresses research models, the positioning of air terminal, the physics of lightning attachment, and the cone of protection.

Here are other references:
• The Art and Science of Lightning Protection by University of Florida professor Dr. Martin Uman, that can be found in The Villages Library.
• The Basis of Conventional Lightning Protection Technology by the federal interagency user group.
• The Report of the Committee on Atmospheric and Space Electricity of the American Geophysical Union of the Scientific Basis for Traditional Lightning Protection Systems, chaired by Dr. Vladimir Rakov of the University of Florida.
• American Metrological Society also published a position paper on LPS that can found on line

Based on what you said above, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that a reliable company be willing to give a written guarantee that there will be no fire or damage from lightning? Talk is cheap but will they back up what they say?

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by memason

That's quiet possible, but you're telling me that research on this topic goes all the way back to the year 1752 ???
At any rate, installing lightning protection is a risk based decision...

Good point........How much wiring was in a house in 1752 to attract lightning???

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by eremite06

How do those 12 homeowners with lightning protection know they took a direct hit? With 100 million volts hitting that ground wire, I'm sure it would melt the wire as well as singe the surrounding area. That's damage, right?

I've seen large oak trees that have been hit and it splits them right down the middle with a large visible black singe.

In one case the homeowner, a retired electrical engineer who had the foresight to install a LPS, was in his living room looking out through his pool cage during a thunderstorm. Lightning struck one of the points on the pool cage and jumped to another point and then went to ground as designed without any damage. In another case the event was reported by a retired meteorologist who took a direct strike and another case was a retired firefighter, fortunately both also had the foresight to install a LPS to NFPA-780 by a UL listed installer. I highly recommend that you read Dr. Martin Uman’s book, The Art and Science of Lightning Protection and especially read the first paragraph of the preface.

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Based on what you said above, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that a reliable company be willing to give a written guarantee that there will be no fire or damage from lightning? Talk is cheap but will they back up what they say?

The studies that I have reviewed show that the major reason for failure is simple neglect and failure to follow the maintance criteria in NFPA-780. They don’t take much maintenance as they have no moving parts. Are there are any manmade products that are 100% reliable – never have a failure? Every transportation mode has a failure rate as does your appliances, computers and other electronics. Are automatic external deliberators (AED) 100% guaranteed when they are called on in a life & death situation? Yet we had one fail last summer during a Villages softball game. My point is that anything manmade can fail but you have to agree that they all work a very high percentage of the time well into to the upper ninety percent range including LPS.

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

Good point........How much wiring was in a house in 1752 to attract lightning???

When a stroke leader begins its millisecond journey down to earth from the thunder cloud it is seeking the least resistance path to ground. It makes no difference if a structure has electricity or not the strike may cause a fire in combustible materials. In 1752 Benjamin Franklin did his famous kite experiment that led to the birth of lightning rods. Lightning was a problem for the colonists and the Europeans as well. Lightning rods were first installed on buildings in Philadelphia in the summer of 1752, and would soon be adopted in some European counties as well. Franklin reported years later that his own house was struck and saved by his own invention.

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by Lightning

When a stroke leader begins its millisecond journey down to earth from the thunder cloud it is seeking the least resistance path to ground. It makes no difference if a structure has electricity or not the strike may cause a fire in combustible materials. In 1752 Benjamin Franklin did his famous kite experiment that led to the birth of lightning rods. Lightning was a problem for the colonists and the Europeans as well. Lightning rods were first installed on buildings in Philadelphia in the summer of 1752, and would soon be adopted in some European counties as well. Franklin reported years later that his own house was struck and saved by his own invention.

Interesting........Last week I had lightning damage twice in the same week. My computer got hit and it most likely came in thru the cable. I also lost my sprinkler timer/controller. I had it replaced and called Seco since I had a whole house surge protector installed and was told each electronic item had to have an individual surge protecter. So.....I had a surge protecter they sent me and plugged my new sprinkler/control into it. That same day it got hit again. I wouldn't have known it but my garage door wouldn't open and is on the same GGI outlet which was tripped. After resetting it my door opened, but the timer was dead. Seco came to my house to file a claim and after checking out the surge protector told me the protector was good and the surge from lightning probably came in through the water pipe and the claim would probably be denied. He also told me of many refrigerators that were hit coming in thru the water line supplying the icemaker. It's interesting because the sprinkler guy told me lots of luck filing a claim with SECO because they can claim many reasons why they are not responsible.
I'm not saying we don't need lightning rods on our homes but in my last two experiences they wouldn't have helped. I would guess lightning rods would protect your home from total damage of the home but not the devices in it.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Lightning

Research and history has demonstrated that Lightning Protection Systems (LPS), commonly called lightning rods, do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the national standard on lightning published by the National Fire Protection Association in NFPA-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems. 2014 edition. Studies have shown that when they don’t work as designed it is due to a lack of maintenance or neglect over time. LPS have no moving parts and only three components; air terminals, down conductors, and driven ground rods – usually 3 or 4 of 8 ft in length. Homeowners with LPS should have the installer check them out every 3 to 5 years but immediately if you have added on (including a pool cage), re-roofed, had extensive landscaping around the foundation, or if you believe that you took a lightning strike.

If you want to learn why they work you should go to the NFPA website and bring up NFPA-780 that is a read only format. Then go to page 57, Principles of Lightning Protection that addresses research models, the positioning of air terminal, the physics of lightning attachment, and the cone of protection.

Here are other references:
• The Art and Science of Lightning Protection by University of Florida professor Dr. Martin Uman, that can be found in The Villages Library.
• The Basis of Conventional Lightning Protection Technology by the federal interagency user group.
• The Report of the Committee on Atmospheric and Space Electricity of the American Geophysical Union of the Scientific Basis for Traditional Lightning Protection Systems, chaired by Dr. Vladimir Rakov of the University of Florida.
• American Metrological Society also published a position paper on LPS that can found on line

The National Fire Protection Association is an industry trade group. So it makes sense that they would naturally promote lightning protection systems. It's hardly an unbiased source on which to base one's research.

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The National Fire Protection Association is an industry trade group. So it makes sense that they would naturally promote lightning protection systems. It's hardly an unbiased source on which to base one's research.

The point is there is solid scientific data that has been developed by academia and the users (those who need the protection) over the years to support the efficacy of lightning protection systems. The NFPA is a private non-profit national consensus standards writing organization. They develop standards on over 400 subjects that are used throughout the country and around the world. In effect they develop model standards that are often times adopted by authorities having jurisdiction such as the federal government, states, and municipalities. This saves the various governmental agencies from researching and developing their own codes. The two most widely used are NFPA-70, The National Electric Code and NFPA-101, The Life Safety Code that provides safe egress from buildings and structures. Some firms such as Disney voluntarily adopt all applicable NFPA standards because they do not want preventable fires injuring their guests, property damage, and downtime. You will note that all buildings at Disney have lightning rods. The NFPA is a major reason why the number of fire deaths and property damage has declined over the years.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The National Fire Protection Association is an industry trade group. So it makes sense that they would naturally promote lightning protection systems. It's hardly an unbiased source on which to base one's research.

I felt very much enlightened when Lighting came to our village meeting and presented his very helpful information on the types and kinds of lightning. There are several. This man does this as a public service. When he moved to Florida he became concerned about the dangerous lightning strikes and contacted the University of Florida for information. He does not promote ANY company to install rods, but he can tell you how to tell if it is a good company. There are a lot of inferior people doing this.

Lighting writes a regular column for the POA newsletter.

[RayinPenn]

Years back I can remember a young couple - she was a stunner. I mean the guys would admire her with their mouths agape...what beautiful girl! Her boyfriend or husband was very good looking too..yeah guys I can say that too.. Young beautiful and in love...

I hadn't seen him in a while and when I did he was walking with a stiff leg? I inquired to a friend. "He lost his leg in a motorcycle accident." Same fellow, but his disability was taxing on him - gone was the glow....

Motorcycle I don't think so..