[Rags123]

Originally Posted by blueash

You may wish to actually read the NY Times article rather than a summary from the GOP candidate for Senate from Delaware. You will find his summary does not contain the nuance nor the whole story of what the NY Times article reports:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/wo...ermid=11951535

And your report of criminals being released, again you haven't told the whole story, and the scary headline is not from the NY Times although your posting seemed to suggest it was (perhaps my reading error)

"the individuals described in the report were released under restrictions, such as GPS monitoring, telephone monitoring, supervision or surety bond...
The releases required by court decisions account for a disproportionate number of the serious crimes listed in the report. For example, mandatory releases account for over 75% of the homicides listed," the statement said. "Others, typically those with less serious offenses, were released as a discretionary matter after career law enforcement officers made a judgment regarding the priority of holding the individual, given ICE's resources, and prioritizing the detention and removal of individuals who pose a risk to public safety or national security"

I have no explanation for the less than 25% of homicides listed and hope there was correct due process and restrictions. Perhaps there was serious doubt about the validity of those convictions in their native lands

I have no idea of how to respond. I am not citing anyones talking points...the news is the news. I am making nothing up...the news is the news. I am unable to satisfy your need for your sources......I cannot find anything that will say what you WANT it to say. Perhaps you can share from your reading and cite some links that will support you.

We are spending OUR money, no matter what, and I feel comfortable based on a lot of reading, that criminals are making there way into our country...and excuse the caps......ILLEGALLY....VIOLATING OUR LAWS.

I did address this directly to another user, but just to respond to one directly at me, which should not raise the eyebrows of any mediators. Done in the interest of discussion.

And nobody is enforcing those laws.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Rags123

By the way, while much is denied illegal immigrants, this is direct from the National Law Center on the Affordable Health Care Act and what these illegal children for example are eligible for....might reflect why the influx...

"Remain eligible for emergency care under federal law.
Eligible for Emergency Medicaid if low-income.
Citizen or lawfully present children of undocumented parents are eligible:

To purchase from the state insurance exchange.
For premium tax credits and lower copayments.
For Medicaid or CHIP.

May seek nonemergency health services at community health centers or safety-net hospitals."


Affordable Care Act - National Immigration Law Center

Listen, you empathy is admirable, but common sense has to rule or we are going to smother ourselves within and without our borders.

Good post. Now tell which of these provisions you believe should be removed. I will dangerously assume that you do not oppose the provision of health services to citizens and lawfully present children. The only nonemergency provision listed is your last sentence. I can tell you that the level of care at a community health center would get these kids immunized, checked for communicable diseases, screened for disabilities and have minor illnesses like strep throat and ear infections managed. These services have prior to the ACA been available at community health centers to the uninsured as they not only help the patient but protect the community's health. As a small point, are these children really "illegal children" I doubt the Immigration Law Center used that pejorative term. I doubt that children are risking their lives to travel through hardships difficult to imagine in the hope that they can get seen in a community center for their earache. Do you believe that health care really "might reflect why the influx?"

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by blueash

Good post. Now tell which of these provisions you believe should be removed. I will dangerously assume that you do not oppose the provision of health services to citizens and lawfully present children. The only nonemergency provision listed is your last sentence. I can tell you that the level of care at a community health center would get these kids immunized, checked for communicable diseases, screened for disabilities and have minor illnesses like strep throat and ear infections managed. These services have prior to the ACA been available at community health centers to the uninsured as they not only help the patient but protect the community's health. As a small point, are these children really "illegal children" I doubt the Immigration Law Center used that pejorative term. I doubt that children are risking their lives to travel through hardships difficult to imagine in the hope that they can get seen in a community center for their earache. Do you believe that health care really "might reflect why the influx?"

I do not believe that the Affordable Health Care Act is the primary reason for the influx. I, obviously not well, was trying to illustrate the costs to OUR country and I think that these children ARE in fact covered by AFHC act in most situations....will check the Texas and Arizona papers for more on that but I think I am accurate. They will though, because they will never be deported...NEVER.

No, they are not fleeing here because of health care...they are here, IMHO for the most part...because they know there are NO consequences for their actions. That is number one.....they will remain here.

I cite and hope the link is satisfactory...

"nstead, the children are turned over to Department Health and Human Services supervision "within 72 hours of DHS taking them into custody," an official said.

Relatives living in the United States are searched for and contacted and the immigrant is given a court date. But very few actually show up and the children often become one of the millions of undocumented immigrants."

Influx of immigrant children expected to last through summer - CNN.com

Now they just wait for the new immigration policy in this country. The election in Virginia was based on fear of the proposals being floated around being passed. These folks know what the proposals are for amnesty and want to share in it.

In the meantime, the DACA program was just recently inacted and it gives them now FOUR years of safety in this country. That is why they are coming here.


PS...Please read the link I supplied on the AFHC act and how it applies. I think you took it out of context or perhaps I did not explain it well enough.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What is your take on this? It is very troubling. My ancestors had to come in through channels. It isn't the present administration that is doing this, the last couple have stopped enforcing laws on immigration. Both sides of the aisle.

It actually goes back to George Bush Sr. and the Chinese. Read the book Snakehead, which is about Sister Ping (who recently died in prison) and the human smuggling of illegals into our country. Note I said human smuggling, not human trafficing. It's a fascinating, scary book.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by CFrance

It actually goes back to George Bush Sr. and the Chinese. Read the book Snakehead, which is about Sister Ping (who recently died in prison) and the human smuggling of illegals into our country. Note I said human smuggling, not human trafficing. It's a fascinating, scary book.

Could you please give more information on this !!

I am famaliar with the Immigration law that Bush Sr signed into law but it was all about LEGAL immigrants and increased the number acceptable.

PLEASE....tell me how President Bush Sr had anything to do with illegal immigrants ?

Not defending him as I do not know what to defend him on, but the illegal traffic in the last two years just does not fit with what he did with immigration.

Thanks for any links or information as this is a first and I try to stay up on this kind of stuff


PS.....did some of my own research and assume you are speaking of the presidential action taken by Bush to assist those Chinese being harrangued about the family planning issue and that did in fact open the doors for CHINESE immigrants.

I thank you very much for the information, but not sure how it applies to the current events. BUT again, I love to learn and this is worth more reading

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Rags123

Could you please give more information on this !!

I am famaliar with the Immigration law that Bush Sr signed into law but it was all about LEGAL immigrants and increased the number acceptable.

PLEASE....tell me how President Bush Sr had anything to do with illegal immigrants ?

Not defending him as I do not know what to defend him on, but the illegal traffic in the last two years just does not fit with what he did with immigration.

Thanks for any links or information as this is a first and I try to stay up on this kind of stuff


PS.....did some of my own research and assume you are speaking of the presidential action taken by Bush to assist those Chinese being harrangued about the family planning issue and that did in fact open the doors for CHINESE immigrants.

I thank you very much for the information, but not sure how it applies to the current events. BUT again, I love to learn and this is worth more reading

You are partially right about it only partially touching the topic of this thread. But the situation was very intricate, and the book touched on this thread's topic. I could not describe it all here without running out of the allotted word count. It sounds like you are interested in this subject, and I strongly suggest you read the book The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream by Patrick Radden Keefe (Jul 27, 2010). If you are at all interested in this subject, you won't be able to put this book down.

There is a bit more to why Bush Sr. did what he did. The book also goes into the politics behind immigrants of all countries, and that's mainly why I brought it up in this thread.

Amazon has a description here Amazon.com: The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream (9780307279279): Patrick Radden Keefe: Books

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by CFrance

You are partially right about it only partially touching the topic of this thread. But the situation was very intricate, and the book touched on this thread's topic. I could not describe it all here without running out of the allotted word count. It sounds like you are interested in this subject, and I strongly suggest you read the book The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream by Patrick Radden Keefe (Jul 27, 2010). If you are at all interested in this subject, you won't be able to put this book down.

There is a bit more to why Bush Sr. did what he did. The book also goes into the politics behind immigrants of all countries, and that's mainly why I brought it up in this thread.

Amazon has a description here Amazon.com: The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream (9780307279279): Patrick Radden Keefe: Books

Yes I am very interested in this, and will read this book, and I thank you for this information.

This is a subject that should be of vital interest for everyone in this country and should not be politicized, but it is right now. Our country is now being taken advantage of in a serious manner. The election in Virginia tells you the import.

We cannot allow this debate to get out of control, and the sooner an OPEN debate begins, the better.

Thanks again for a thought provoking book, which I assure you I WILL read.

[denise adams]

Alright, let me ask a simple question to those of you who apparently don't see much of a problem with the current immigration situation.........
Whats your opinion on what should be done?
At poker the other night, someone said "why do we always hear about SS running out of money but you never hear about welfare running out of money?

[denise adams]

Wow, I forgot one other important comment...........
We went to see "The Immigrant" at Brownwood movie house yesterday. That immigration process worked then, why not now? Not everyone was allowed into this country.

[chachacha]

my question for days has been, why don't we send the national guard to prevent entry of these people or at least to take the burden of processing them away from the border patrol, so they can stop them??? what is the national guard for if not for this?

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by blueash

So let me see if I clearly understand your complaint. Is it that minors with gang tattoos are being allowed into this country because that is the theme of the article you linked from the Washington times? Or is this that brown people have lots of children and will reproduce to the point that gringos no longer have the voting clout we now enjoy, which is certainly the point of your last paragraph. You do know that when they let the Irish in people screamed, and the Italians, and of course the Jews. And we had years of laws to relegate those "Orientals" to second class citizenship. They couldn't even be lawyers, just cheap labor. And all those Cubans that Castro sent our way only built the economy of Miami to a world class city level. The answer is that if their parents are already here... that is who will house and feed them. This is America, we can handle it

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Blueash, I think you have really nailed it! Thank you saying it so succinctly!

[NoMoSno]

Apparently, central Florida is a favored spot to bring the illegal aliens to.

Apopka

[adeleb]

Sponsorship for illegal ( undocumented..sorry That was not PC) individuals/ families is the answer.

The volunteer sponsor would be responsible for medical, housing and education as well as day to day living expenses as well as for any liability should there be an accident or a crime committed.
Sponsor would be liable for any non payment of taxes on income earned.
Would be nice if sponsor paid for job seeking assistance and ESL classes.

How many of those individuals or groups so vocal on undocumented immigrant rights would step up ?
It's easy when your spend everyone's money. Not so easy when it's your own money.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Now how about a post that expresses your point of view instead of trying to tell others what my intent was!

The attitude of the response is exactly what got the political forum shut down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In 1900 the US population was about 85 million. In the next 15 years there were about 15 million immigrants admitted to our nation, or one new immigrant for every 6 already here. The same ratio would mean 50 million immigrants now. And most who came were poor, unwashed certainly not English speaking. Almost all were southern and eastern Europeans, not WASPs. They were admitted through our open borders and produced the greatest generation of Americans, the booming middle class. I thought my post made my opinion clear. I agree with Emma Lazarus.

Immigration in The 1920s

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Rags123

PS...Please read the link I supplied on the AFHC act and how it applies. I think you took it out of context or perhaps I did not explain it well enough.

I did read your link. You didn't list all the rules for undocumented immigrants so I will cut and paste for everyone to see:

UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS

No federal coverage.
•Not allowed to purchase private health insurance at full cost in state insurance exchange(s).
•Not eligible for premium tax credits or lower copayments.
•Exempt from individual mandate.
•Not eligible for Medicare, nonemergency Medicaid, or CHIP.
•Remain eligible for emergency care under federal law.
•Eligible for Emergency Medicaid if low-income.
•Citizen or lawfully present children of undocumented parents are eligible:
◦To purchase from the state insurance exchange.
◦For premium tax credits and lower copayments.
◦For Medicaid or CHIP.
•May seek nonemergency health services at community health centers or safety-net hospitals.


These are hardly generous provisions as they only provide for emergency care, you wouldn't want a child hit by a car to not get care would you? And minimal additional services at community health centers and specific public safety net hospitals. What you see as incentivizing undocumented immigration perhaps because of some animus about the ACA, in fact gives these children minimal health care and in some cases less ability to access the health care system than they had prior to the ACA. If you wish to further understand the impact on undocumented children read this concentrating on the "Unauthorized Immigrant" section:

Coverage Implications and Issues for Immigrant Families: ASPE Issue Brief