[golf2140]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal that said Idaho was having to use convict laborers to harvest potatoes because there were not enough migrant workers. I could not find anything about Maine's potatoes but saw that the Maine blueberry crop is dependent on migrant workers. These are usually illegals and are paid in cash under the table. Under the table means cheap labor for the corporations that hire them.

Do you honestly think that all the construction workers who built our homes in The Villages were legal? How about our maintenance workers?

Wow what a statement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rubicon]

This pension issue is just the tip of the iceberg. There are not many public pension plans that are properly funded. Ask Illinois

[Paper1]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Here is my understanding of the OP's comments ( post#1).

It is a congressional bipartisan effort under the omnibus budget designed to mitigate a pension crisis before it requires a taxpayer bailout.

The plans afected are those wherein employees could transfer their pension from one employer to another ( construction, etc) The plans were set up decades ago and are viewed as an anachronism today because it the rapidly changing business climate of today companies go broke or break off certain lines.

The Teamsters tried to push through a taxpayer bailout in 2010. However if the plans do fail then they fall to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) which is essentially underfunded

The compromise included both political parties and the union leaders calls for those pension plans deemed critical or declining (fail within 15 years or less than 80% funded) could petition the Treasury to cut benefits up to 110% of the PBGC limit The PBGC's annual max is $12,870. The reform also makes permanent 2006 Pension Protection Act that allow insolvent plans to reduce adjustable benefits that is early and disability payouts.

Wall Street Journal 12/12/2014

Thank you for adding some facts to this thread instead of emotion.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Paper1

Thank you for adding some facts to this thread instead of emotion.

Posted 9 PM 12/13/14 CNN Money

Congress moves one step closer toward allowing pension cuts - Dec. 12, 2014

[Madelaine Amee]

IMHO this legislation could have a profound effect on many living here. Many of my acquaintances are retired from these industries, and this would be a huge cut in pensions and living style. It has to be very frightening for a lot of people.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

IMHO this legislation could have a profound effect on many living here. Many of my acquaintances are retired from these industries, and this would be a huge cut in pensions and living style. It has to be very frightening for a lot of people.

In one way or another it will have an adverse ripple affect on everyone living here.

[Paper1]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

IMHO this legislation could have a profound effect on many living here. Many of my acquaintances are retired from these industries, and this would be a huge cut in pensions and living style. It has to be very frightening for a lot of people.

Not to get political but exactly the reason these issues should have been addressed long ago. There is going to be some pain somewhere after a great deal of avoidance

[KeepingItReal]

Congress approves plan to allow pension cuts
December 14, 2014: 12:21 AM ET

Congress approves plan to allow pension cuts - Dec. 12, 2014

[Sandtrap328]

One thing that was never mentioned in this thread is the fact that all "money" bills must originate in the House of Representatives.

The amendment that may allow for the reduction of some pensions was written by Rep. Kline (R) of Minnesota.

Google the voting record of the House on this spending bill and see how it basically went along party lines. Rich Nugent who represents The Villages voted in favor of it.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

One thing that was never mentioned in this thread is the fact that all "money" bills must originate in the House of Representatives.

The amendment that may allow for the reduction of some pensions was written by Rep. Kline (R) of Minnesota.

Google the voting record of the House on this spending bill and see how it basically went along party lines. Rich Nugent who represents The Villages voted in favor of it.

And isn't it interesting that this spending bill was approved after the election?

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

One thing that was never mentioned in this thread is the fact that all "money" bills must originate in the House of Representatives.

The amendment that may allow for the reduction of some pensions was written by Rep. Kline (R) of Minnesota.

Google the voting record of the House on this spending bill and see how it basically went along party lines. Rich Nugent who represents The Villages voted in favor of it.

Did Rep Nugent discuss this amendment to the spending bill when he held his town hall meetings before the recent election? If so, what was the reaction by the seniors in attendance?

The good news is, as I read it, this bill will not effect anyone age 80 or over, so it seems congress is encouraging people to work into their 80's which would lighten the load on social security.

With people losing up to 50% of what they thought their pensions would be or what they are now collecting, this cannot be good news for the future expansion of The Villages.

[sunnyatlast]

This is just one more mess Congress has made when they get their greedy hands in the till and use it as gift giving to garner votes.

It seems people are forgetting that the rising costs of union retirees' healthcare was cited as a main reason why these pension funds were/are underfunded for the future, and thus ACA was supposed to address that. Instead, it's gotten worse:

"Unions’ support was critical to the passage of Obamacare in 2010. But unions are continuing to learn, to their apparent surprise, that their members will bear many of the costs of the new health law. Now we learn that some laborers are preparing to strike, if they are forced to absorb the higher health-insurance costs that the Affordable Care Act requires.

“When we first supported the calls for health-care reform, we thought it was going to bring costs down,” a lawyer for the Laborers International Union of North America, or LIUNA, told Kris Maher and Melanie Trottman of the Wall Street Journal. But that’s not what’s happening. Maher and Trottman today discuss several cases where unionized workers and their employers are being forced to absorb higher costs as a result of the law…."

A Labor Union Prepares To Strike, As Obamacare Ups Health Insurance Costs By 5.0-12.5% - Forbes

And then there are the "perverse incentives" the Teamsters and others cited in the law that affect their workers-taxpayers in ways that seriously affect the funding of their pensions, too:

"Time is running out: Congress wrote this law; we voted for you. We have a problem; you need to fix it. The unintended consequences of the ACA are severe. Perverse incentives are already creating nightmare scenarios:

First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees’ work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers’ hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits….."

Union Letter: Obamacare Will ‘Destroy The Very Health and Wellbeing’ of Workers - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ

TERM LIMITS are needed to force these people out after one 3 or 5 year term so they have to go home and earn and make a living and build a retirement the way the rest of us do. Term limits are good for the presidency, and so they would be good for Congress, too.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by janmcn

And isn't it interesting that this spending bill was approved after the election?

That point occurred to me!

[Sandtrap328]

I wonder if Rep. Rich Nugent will bring the amendment up at his next town meeting (that it was a Republican idea to cut certain pensions) as to what his reasons were for his vote in favor of it?

That would definitely be a crowd pleaser here in The Villages.

[Sandtrap328]

Well, let's hope it does not impact many of our residents.