[senior citizen]

Did anyone see the young female witness for the defense.....Olivia ?
She and her husband moved out of the same development after her "scare".

To paraphrase, she had been home alone with her first born infant son when she heard banging on her front door; not having a peephole.....she went upstairs and saw two African American males.......she was frightened and called her mom who told her to call 911 or the police. Long story short, she was told to stay in the far corner of the upstairs bedroom.........meanwhile, ahead of the police arrival, the two guys had broken in to her town home and fled with a camera and laptop but had no luck in disconnecting the t.v...........all I'm saying is that the "climate" of fear in that particular neighborhood....and other places in Florida.....can make it understandable why George Zimmerman might have feared for his life. There had been criminal activity around .........so I would think that it would always be in the back of one's mind......to be ever vigilant.........or else move away.

We thought she was a good witness for the defense....to help understand the climate at the time.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I don't know how I feel about this case. My family told us kids not to be where someone could misinterpret your actions, like in a dark alley in the middle of the night. And stay away from trouble and trouble will stay away from you.

I don't know what profiling really means, jumping to judgment based on a persons appearance and whereabouts? I don't know. But I just wish they had both ended up with black eyes and broken noses and continued on their lives wherever their lives were taking them.

I don't know what I would have thought if I ran into George Zimmerman with a gun in the dark or he ran into me with a hoody and something in my hand in the middle of the night.

I just don't know what to think.

We all react dramatically different in the dark when we are alarmed than when we are at the breakfast table.

Overkill is very deep word.

Where in the Cinci burbs were you residing when the Cincinnati riots were going on?

We had been made aware of the situation long before we left Vermont......but it's very different when one is in the thick of things, living in or near Cincinnati.

We had the misfortune of getting "lost" in Cinci enroute to our son's home when he was working at Proctor and Gamble right out of grad school.

We were a bit frightened ourselves. We definitely had taken the wrong exit.

I can totally comprehend George's fear for his life.

We also can remember from our "youth" the climate surrounding the riots in Newark, New Jersey with the crime in its aftermath..........many people became hyper vigilant. That was the 1960's.

Now it's Detroit and Chicago with the crime problems.

We predict George will either be acquitted.....or face some lesser charge.
He carried the gun with a permit. He feared for his life. The kid was taller than he was and banging his head into the ground.

Had he not been suspended from his own high school, the young man would not have been in Sanford Florida with his dad and the dad's girlfriend. I think they should use the marijuana in his system.....in their closing arguments. Drugs can change a person's personality. Everyone is different.

We've had more than a few druggie types infiltrate our town.
Thankfully, our police chief is doing a great job...........

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

If people weren't watching, they wouldn't be showing it on four channels. I haven't watched any Zimmerman coverage. I hate wasting good daylight hours. However I have to admit that I got hooked on both the Arias trial and the Casey Anthony trial. I guess watching pure evil is addictive.

Ditto about wasting good daylight hours. I agree with you totally.

However, we have had daily rain every single day in July.......plus pretty close to daily rain in June, May, etc. We need Noah's Ark. Flash flooding all over plus in neighboring states. Our governor says it is the worst in our history.

The court trials at least challenge our brains to think.......compared to the other inane daily shows.

Too bad we will miss Jodi's August "repeat" trial as we will be gone to Maine on vacation with all of the kids and grandkids......for two weeks.

Guess they will show her ultimate sentence on the evening news.

p.s.
Actually, the first trial we ever watched was Casey Anthony's......I followed Caylee's disappearance via the Orlando Sentinel from day one.

I think George disposed of his grand daughter's body; I do believe Casey had multiple personalities , thus her "imaginary friends" poster that Jose Baez put up at the end. It probably was a pool accident. All of that stuff about her drugging the kid to go partying.....was media hype. However, that said, she had some pretty shifty friends who were never called to testify very much.........I wonder if there will be a retrial. I had heard that there might be a redo as a "federal crime".......something in the realm of child neglect..........not murder per se.......or molestation of a child????
Perhaps the friends will then be called back. Casey definitely had psychological issues from her own childhood........and her mom was in denial about all of the family dynamics.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Not that it should matter, but I think Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias, being attractive young women, were both "easy on the eyes". And I think their appearance affected the Jury perception of whether they would be capable of a violent crime. I don't think Zimmerman makes a good impression as he sits there with his impassive expression. Not that he can change the way he looks, just an observation.

All through the trial I did believe that Jodi was a victim of domestic emotional violence; that she played along with it to snag him into marrying her.

However, after seeing the LIFETIME MOVIE and the way that her crime against Travis was committed........if that was truly based on forensics and what the police really think happened in that bathroom.........then she is very guilty.

To have committed that much carnage in a few short minutes.....is hard to take in.

She could have chosen to NOT return to the scene of domestic abuse. She could have cut all the ties that bind. It was her choice to return. There was no good reason to return to Travis........

He was not a saint himself, even though he supposedly was a Bishop.
It often seems that the very rigid and strict rules of religion in general creates these warped perspectives on love and such. All religions with man made rules.

I don't believe it was premeditated though.

Something must have "snapped" in her mind when she fully realized he was going on vacation with the gal he was considering as a good pure Mormon wife.

She has ruined so many lives........including her own. Another sad story.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think it is about both.

If I felt afraid of someone, or thought someone was behaving suspiciously, being a woman, I would leave them ALONE and call the police. Unless they were trying to hurt my family or me and who knows what I would do. I would probably have profiled him as a young punk wearing a hoody walking around in the middle of the night. His color could have been purple or bright green. I would look at and wonder what that kid was doing in a hoody in the middle of the night.

I would end up being hit with my own gun or shooting someone or something I didn't aim at. I am an emotional women.
I know what I can do and what I can't do. I don't want a gun in my home, everyone gets madder than hell at someone at some time in their lives and they do NOT behave rationally. EVERYONE.

It is a mess, the whole situation. Again, not easy to figure it out.

I'm pretty sure that I read he was wearing a "hoody" because it was raining out.

I also do not believe in using guns; have never fired a gun. Anti gun myself.

However, our state is a big hunting state. My husband has always had guns and still has guns. Used to be a hunter.

He brought a gun into his jewelry store, for protection of himself and his sales associates, after all the media attention to "smash and grabs" meaning a certain element , seen on video camera, breaking cases in jewelry stores in Albany N.Y. area and other regions........there was a rash of these jewelry store heists when the gold and platinum prices soared.

He never had to shoot or kill anyone......but our state does allow people to pack a firearm.

Back in the 1960's my sweet little 50 year old mother in law at the time said she would get herself a gun and shoot anyone who came looting her house. She sure didn't fit the profile of a crazed gun owner as I recall, but she was ready to defend her modest home from what was going on in the cities at the time.....the riots..........with tons of looting. So, one never knows how they might respond when they perceive danger.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by NJblue

By now we have the testimony of the police who said that indeed, Zimmerman' clothes were more wet on the back than the front and also had grass blades on the back. That, plus the closest eye witness claiming that it was Trayvon on top and Zimmerman on the bottom seems to bolster Zimmerman's story.

The other obstacle that the prosecution has to overcome is that even if Trayvon were on the bottom, how did he get face down which was how his body was found? Eyewitness testimony says that the bottom figure was face up during the fight. Also, Trayvon was shot from the front. So, if Zimmerman was on top and shot him in the chest, he would also have to roll him over for him to become face down. None of the witnesses saw anything that would resemble moving the body, nor would there be any reason for Zimmerman to do this.

Maybe more will be revealed, but as of now, the best evidence seems to support Zimmerman's story.

Very very good post. This is exactly how we perceive the situation based on what we've heard and read.........

Are you a N.J. police officer? Our nephew retired from the force.

[gomoho]

[QUOTE=senior citizen;706250]I'm pretty sure that I read he was wearing a "hoody" because it was raining out.

Unfortunately "hoodies" are also worn as a message of intimidation - wanting to portray a persona of hiding or threatening. Don't know if that is why Trayvon was wearing his that night, but then again their is an indoor picture of him with a hoody on.

[senior citizen]

[quote=gomoho;706261]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

I'm pretty sure that I read he was wearing a "hoody" because it was raining out.

Unfortunately "hoodies" are also worn as a message of intimidation - wanting to portray a persona of hiding or threatening. Don't know if that is why Trayvon was wearing his that night, but then again their is an indoor picture of him with a hoody on.

I do understand what you are saying. Just responding as far as the weather that evening.

Hey, high school kids up here all wear hoodies....and they are not punks.
I have a few myself....

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Where in the Cinci burbs were you residing when the Cincinnati riots were going on?

We had been made aware of the situation long before we left Vermont......but it's very different when one is in the thick of things, living in or near Cincinnati.

We had the misfortune of getting "lost" in Cinci enroute to our son's home when he was working at Proctor and Gamble right out of grad school.

We were a bit frightened ourselves. We definitely had taken the wrong exit.

I can totally comprehend George's fear for his life.

We also can remember from our "youth" the climate surrounding the riots in Newark, New Jersey with the crime in its aftermath..........many people became hyper vigilant. That was the 1960's.

Now it's Detroit and Chicago with the crime problems.

We predict George will either be acquitted.....or face some lesser charge.
He carried the gun with a permit. He feared for his life. The kid was taller than he was and banging his head into the ground.

Had he not been suspended from his own high school, the young man would not have been in Sanford Florida with his dad and the dad's girlfriend. I think they should use the marijuana in his system.....in their closing arguments. Drugs can change a person's personality. Everyone is different.

We've had more than a few druggie types infiltrate our town.
Thankfully, our police chief is doing a great job...........

Senior,

If you had read to the end of this thread you would see that my opinion had changed over time as the information in the trial was presented. At the beginning, I was TRYING to place my self in a non judgmental position. But as the information has presented itself, I have changed my mind and feel that Trayvon Martin did attack George Zimmerman. You responded to one of my earlier posts on this matter.

I am aware of riots. And of fear. And of the climate of the downtown area of Cincinnati changing over time. Long ago the area called "Over the Rhine" in downtown Cincinnati, once a lovely place inhabited by hard working German immigrants has now become a place to be feared to drive in at night. There is a drug culture there and bad things happening and people murdering each other over drugs. I remember reading in The Cincinnati Enquirer a long time ago that we were on the drug corridor and that Detroit was being overrun by drug users and drug dealers and they were coming our way.

I wish that the young men could find jobs they liked and wanted to work hard to find success and not be lured by the dangerous life of easy money dealing drugs. Each year the Cincinnati Enquirer shows the people murdered downtown. They are mostly young men and have killed each other in the same ugly business.

It is hard not to jump to conclusions when you see an expensive car parked way off in the corner of a Kroger's parking lot in suburbia with a young man sitting inside in the middle of the day and see people coming and going from the car.

I guess that is profiling.

It is a terrible thing to grow old and jump to conclusions and to grow out of the trust and kindness and fairness of youth.

[dillywho]

GZ has told so many different versions of that night. One portion did not vary and that was that he felt that TM was going to get his gun and he got to it first and fired. Based on that, it should be self defense but guilty of total stupidity for not just calling in and then leaving the rest up to actual law enforcement. TM was not in the commission of a crime when spotted by GZ, just looked suspicious to him. He might not have looked suspicious to someone else. That was GZ's judgment alone.

The fact that he was in a fight is not what he has said that made him fear for his life. TM reaching for his gun was. If what he says about that is true, then I don't understand why so much emphasis has been on the fight being his big fear and very little on that part. As a juror, that is what I would question.

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by lady_tattler

One of the contentious part is the sequence of events. My take and I have posted it on my Google+ is a crime camera would have helped a lot.

It will take us years perhaps decades of technology but we could use an eye in the sky (satellite perhaps) or a simple cat's eye that when activated can record all those details and stored online real time so no one can defile what really happened.

Right now, it's all colors and hues.
_______
Thanks, this is my first post. Great to be here.

SCARY, very scary.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Senior,

If you had read to the end of this thread you would see that my opinion had changed over time as the information in the trial was presented. At the beginning, I was TRYING to place my self in a non judgmental position. But as the information has presented itself, I have changed my mind and feel that Trayvon Martin did attack George Zimmerman. You responded to one of my earlier posts on this matter.

I am aware of riots. And of fear. And of the climate of the downtown area of Cincinnati changing over time. Long ago the area called "Over the Rhine" in downtown Cincinnati, once a lovely place inhabited by hard working German immigrants has now become a place to be feared to drive in at night. There is a drug culture there and bad things happening and people murdering each other over drugs. I remember reading in The Cincinnati Enquirer a long time ago that we were on the drug corridor and that Detroit was being overrun by drug users and drug dealers and they were coming our way.

I wish that the young men could find jobs they liked and wanted to work hard to find success and not be lured by the dangerous life of easy money dealing drugs. Each year the Cincinnati Enquirer shows the people murdered downtown. They are mostly young men and have killed each other in the same ugly business.

It is hard not to jump to conclusions when you see an expensive car parked way off in the corner of a Kroger's parking lot in suburbia with a young man sitting inside in the middle of the day and see people coming and going from the car.

I guess that is profiling.

It is a terrible thing to grow old and jump to conclusions and to grow out of the trust and kindness and fairness of youth.

Yes, I eventually did read it to the end...........but I began at the beginning.

I know exactly where you were coming from in trying to be non judgemental.

However, there are times when we have to use our gut instincts and our knowledge of the surroundings.

I had black friends when I was a kid.......as did my mom.
I had Jewish friends and still do; one of whom survived the concentration camps.
I was raised with all ethnic groups, all religious groups, etc.
I learned to judge people on their own personal merits.
There is good and evil in all types of people.

There is also bias against Italians , believe it or not....when folks think they are all like the SOPRANOS as depicted in that popular t.v. show ( which we are watching again as we own all the seasons; hubby loves that show .....believe it's our sixth time )......

As a child I never heard anything of the mob.....but we were raised in a German/Polish neighborhood (which is nowadays Portuguese).

My Italian family lived in New York City, Brooklyn, The Bronx, Staten Island and Long Island, Connecticut, etc. and Massachusetts.

When I was a young mom, already living in Vermont....my Italian aunt and Godmother would call from Brooklyn on occasion.......I still recall my asking her "Is the mob for real? Is there really organized crime such as the Mafia?".........that would have been in the 1970's.

She simply said, "Yes, they exist...but they protect the neighborhoods." "If anyone has a problem, they know who to "go to"...and that was that.

I thought back and do not recall my dad ever mentioning anything about the Mafia in his neighborhood which was Little Italy.

However, later, in hindsight...........I remembered when we were about 19 years old, engaged to be married........and attending the rehearsal dinner of a German school friend of my fiancé's......who was marrying a nice Italian gal.......we were all approaching or had reached age 20 which was the magical age for getting married back then..........

My husband had heard that his friend, who was a truck driver, would tell everyone that they had been approached by the "mob" to transport "hot goods" etc........and that everybody did it. I didn't pay much attention.
This would have been at Port Newark.

He also told me that the bride to be's uncle was in the mob. Ditto.

Before the wedding, she invited us all to go down the Jersey Shore to her uncle's vacation house on the water...........he took us for a speedboat ride which was quite exhilarating if you don't mind all that hairspray we wore back then to get totally yucky. All kinds of strangers were there; not just the family. Expensive home with dock. Very hospitable to us young folks.

She was a sweet gal and her family was middle class like the rest of us.

Now , the large corporation office where I was working as a private secretary (Just like MAD MEN, I can so relate to those times).........had an inventory dept. One of the gals and I would chat at lunchtime.
She happened to be Italian....a bit older than me. She would tell me about her "boyfriend" being in the mob. But that she always felt "protected".......that he hung out at the Italian Club and they sat outdoors (like on the Sopranos at the Pork Store)......and that all the neighbors felt "safe"..........ha ha. Believe me, I couldn't make this up.

Later, at the rehearsal dinner........a month later......guess who was sitting across the table from us????? My friend from work and her boyfriend.

Which means that there was indeed something to the fact that the bride's uncle was in the mob or mafia.
How many "degrees of separation" before we are all connected??????

He was quite handsome, if truth be .told. Very mannerly, a perfect gentleman and sedately dressed.......not overweight like all the Sopranos.

This was 1965. My fiancé was sitting next to me; he was the best man and I was one of the bridesmaids to be.....again, this was the rehearsal dinner....at a restaurant. Her "uncle" who also was her Godfather" was hosting it.......not the parents.

My work friend's boyfriend struck up a conversation with me and asked me if I ever made lasagna........so I proceeded to tell him how I had learned to make it............and it was exactly like he made it. Italian men are taught to cook by their mothers.

Anyway, we all had a pleasant evening.

Comes the day of the wedding...........guess who is my driver?
Him. Mr. Mafia. I had never ridden in a Buick Riviera which was a luxury car at the time and it was like a cloud mobile compared to ours........

He again was mannerly and a gentleman. Admired my bridesmaids gown.
He had to be 25 to 30 to my 19. Anyway, my now husband was the best man and transported with the groom.........turned out to be a great wedding..........we often wonder what became of everyone......we kept in touch for a few years until we all had children and moved out of state.

Never really thought about it again until we started watching THE SOPRANOS..........as hubby says, not all are killers.....some just move hot stuff or own stores that take in hot stuff. We never did. Honest Injun.
Other than my Godmother, whom I asked, none of my dad's family ever even mentioned the Mafia.......and I do not condone organized crime.

Just relaying this to say I do not believe in profiling.....but I do rely on my gut instincts.

[collie1228]

Zimmerman: Probably guilty of something, but certainly not murder-2. But is it fair to successfully defend against a murder charge and have the judge allow the jury to convict of something less? Not fair in my opinion, but I'll bet it happens.

Judge: Unbelievably biased against Zimmerman and his defense team. She's a disgrace. Her badgering of Zimmerman and Don West yesterday was the last straw for me. Just unbelievable.

Attorney Mark O'Mara: A really good defense attorney.

Attorney Don West: Not so good. Appears to be out of his league.

Prosecutors: Not sure if they believe in their case or not. They sure have been helpful to the defense throughout the trial.

I'll bet that the jury will be allowed to convict on a lesser charge and Zimmerman will get a few years in prison. This way the state may avoid riots in the streets. Isn't that a sad commentary on our justice system?

[John_W]

Originally Posted by collie1228

Zimmerman: Probably guilty of something, but certainly not murder-2. But is it fair to successfully defend against a murder charge and have the judge allow the jury to convict of something less? Not fair in my opinion, but I'll bet it happens.

Judge: Unbelievably biased against Zimmerman and his defense team. She's a disgrace. Her badgering of Zimmerman and Don West yesterday was the last straw for me. Just unbelievable.

Attorney Mark O'Mara: A really good defense attorney.

Attorney Don West: Not so good. Appears to be out of his league.

Prosecutors: Not sure if they believe in their case or not. They sure have been helpful to the defense throughout the trial.

I'll bet that the jury will be allowed to convict on a lesser charge and Zimmerman will get a few years in prison. This way the state may avoid riots in the streets. Isn't that a sad commentary on our justice system?

Probably guilty of something, what would that be? This entire trial is about whether he committed a crime, I don't see any crime committed. TM committed the crime when he hit GZ in the nose and jumped on him while on the ground.

I agree with you about the Judge. In fact, Judge Nelson has tried so hard not to be the next 'Judge Ito', that she has bent over backwards with her rulings favoring the state. Even with that said, I don't see a conviction because it's just not there. Even though the Sanford Police didn't get to finish their investigation, it's like what Sheriff Lee said, they didn't arrest GZ because no charges were justified. However, the outside agitators ran Lee out of office and got the these bogus charges.

I've been watching trials on Courtv or other channels since they first became televised many years ago. Whether it was Scott Peterson or Jodi Arias. Attorney Don West has been one of the best cross-examiners I've seen. His slow and laid-back style allows the listener time for his question to soak in, and makes the respondent answers confirm his point. Just because West gets into confrontations with the Judge doesn't make him bad. Both West and Mark O'Mara are excellent and if I was ever in need of a defense attorney, they would be my first choices.

[buggyone]

The bet of an ice-cold Yeungling (at Codys) is still open to the first taker who thinks Zimmernan will be found "not guilty" of all charges.