Originally Posted by rubicon

The issue being discussed here has implications that will change life as we know it now. So I want to know before I place my trust with someone just how they feel about that issue.

Are you talking about same sex marriage? If that is what you mean, how does it have implications that will change life as we know it now?

Personally, I am for civil unions which would give gay/lesbian couples every right that a married couple has under federal and state laws.

As for calling it marriage, a civil union means the same thing in my book if it is not performed in a church. There is nothing to say anywhere that a marriage has to be performed in a church. How is a civil union performed by a Justice of the Peace or a judge in city hall any different than a marriage between a man and a woman that is performed by a JP or a judge in city hall?

being lawyer trained he is merely protecting his deniability....pedigreed politician not taking any risk position on anything. The mark of a non leader, validated time and again....and again.

btk

Private behavior that causes public harm is everyone’s business.

If you do not believe that same sex marriages will not have an impact on children (total confusion), taxes (filing taxes will change), morality (check the stats on MA since they legalized it with), workplace laws, etc. then you have not researched it much.

Everyone has their own moral compass,and just from myself, in this country JUST 10 YEARS AGO, it was illegal for two men to have sex and now we want to allow marriage. I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that fact alone allows for a lot of intimate and cultural gain. The message this would send to satisfy a few who have rights, but together, in my opinion, do not make a MARRIAGE.

"Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose,
they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us."

Marriage is about bringing together men and women so children can have mothers and fathers.

A national referendum on this would put it to rest in my opinion.

Originally Posted by billethkid

being lawyer trained he is merely protecting his deniability....pedigreed politician not taking any risk position on anything. The mark of a non leader, validated time and again....and again.

btk

This is his training....tough decisions...just abstain ! Then blame somebody for the results.

Originally Posted by Bucco

Private behavior that causes public harm is everyone’s business.

If you do not believe that same sex marriages will not have an impact on children (total confusion), taxes (filing taxes will change), morality (check the stats on MA since they legalized it with), workplace laws, etc. then you have not researched it much.

Everyone has their own moral compass,and just from myself, in this country JUST 10 YEARS AGO, it was illegal for two men to have sex and now we want to allow marriage. I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that fact alone allows for a lot of intimate and cultural gain. The message this would send to satisfy a few who have rights, but together, in my opinion, do not make a MARRIAGE.

"Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose,
they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us."

Marriage is about bringing together men and women so children can have mothers and fathers.

A national referendum on this would put it to rest in my opinion.

How archaic.

Originally Posted by janmcn

Yes, I believe they can and that is exactly what President Obama is doing on this matter.

except that we have not seen/heard pres obama actually endorse same sex marriage, right? [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...o-change.html]. that is a position on which he is "evolving".

Originally Posted by DaleMN

How archaic.

You are probably right. I am of the mind that there are IN FACT, some things sacred...sorry !!!

Originally Posted by njbchbum

except that we have not seen/heard pres obama actually endorse same sex marriage, right? [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...o-change.html]. that is a position on which he is "evolving".

President Obama has said over and over that he is for civil unions and is still evolving on same-sex marriage. Whether or not he changes his position before the election remains to be seen. There's little chance that the LGBT vote is going to switch to Mitt Romney, since he is vehemently opposed to all same-sex relationships. Mormons spent lots of money trying to pass Proposition 8 in CA which was later overturned by the courts.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8

Originally Posted by Bucco

Private behavior that causes public harm is everyone’s business.

If you do not believe that same sex marriages will not have an impact on children (total confusion), taxes (filing taxes will change), morality (check the stats on MA since they legalized it with), workplace laws, etc. then you have not researched it much.

Everyone has their own moral compass,and just from myself, in this country JUST 10 YEARS AGO, it was illegal for two men to have sex and now we want to allow marriage. I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that fact alone allows for a lot of intimate and cultural gain. The message this would send to satisfy a few who have rights, but together, in my opinion, do not make a MARRIAGE.

"Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose,
they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us."

Marriage is about bringing together men and women so children can have mothers and fathers.

A national referendum on this would put it to rest in my opinion.

Instead of calling it "Marriage", would you object to "Civil Union"? Personally, I am for civil unions which would give gay/lesbian couples every right that a married couple has under federal and state laws.

As for calling it marriage, a civil union means the same thing in my book if it is not performed in a church. There is nothing to say anywhere that a marriage has to be performed in a church. How is a civil union performed by a Justice of the Peace or a judge in city hall any different than a marriage between a man and a woman that is performed by a JP or a judge in city hall?

Originally Posted by Bucco

Private behavior that causes public harm is everyone’s business.

If you do not believe that same sex marriages will not have an impact on children (total confusion), taxes (filing taxes will change), morality (check the stats on MA since they legalized it with), workplace laws, etc. then you have not researched it much.

Everyone has their own moral compass,and just from myself, in this country JUST 10 YEARS AGO, it was illegal for two men to have sex and now we want to allow marriage. I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that fact alone allows for a lot of intimate and cultural gain. The message this would send to satisfy a few who have rights, but together, in my opinion, do not make a MARRIAGE.

"Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose,
they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us."

Marriage is about bringing together men and women so children can have mothers and fathers.

A national referendum on this would put it to rest in my opinion.

Bucco., I wholeheartedly agree. forget man's law or religious law this act is an unnatural act and is repulsive and to attempt to legitimize it either as marriage or civil unions is unnatural. The Hollywood Community is pushing this agenda as are our liberal schools. These inititatives will open a pandora's box. While I believe these folks should not be ridiculed or that hate crimes perpetuated against them, to suggest this is a normal lifestyle is dangerous and confusing for young people. but then that's exactly why all the campaigning, whitewashing by powerful and influencial people...professors, actors, etc. We can only pray that the people of this country get the opportunity for a referendum but with liberals controlling don't bet on it.

Originally Posted by janmcn

President Obama has said over and over that he is for civil unions and is still evolving on same-sex marriage. Whether or not he changes his position before the election remains to be seen. There's little chance that the LGBT vote is going to switch to Mitt Romney, since he is vehemently opposed to all same-sex relationships. Mormons spent lots of money trying to pass Proposition 8 in CA which was later overturned by the courts.

California Proposition 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i thought the pres was in support of equal rights for the gay/lesbian community but had yet to come out with an endorsement for same sex marriage.
Obama Pressed by Rights Groups to Back Same-Sex Marriage - Bloomberg

i don't find wiki resources to be creditable since they are prepared/modified by folks like you and me - i'll stick with the jaded/slanted reports of the media. thanx

here this will help clarify where Obama stands on the issue:

News from The Associated Press

as usual waiting to see which way the wind (votes) will blow..

about as Crystal clear...as voting "present:...

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

here this will help clarify where Obama stands on the issue:

News from The Associated Press

as usual waiting to see which way the wind (votes) will blow..

about as Crystal clear...as voting "present:...

btk

Billy I just wonder how folks who know him continue to support him unless its just the power part, but this IS Barack Obama......if you read, he will just muse until it is to his advantage.....good for politics....bad for President. That, as I recall, when he and Secy Clinton were debating who would do the best with the 3 am call....she mentioned that he would not make up his mind as one of the reasons she was batter. She nailed it.

Dont care what anyone says Biden was a test balloon !!!

Originally Posted by billethkid

here this will help clarify where Obama stands on the issue:

News from The Associated Press

as usual waiting to see which way the wind (votes) will blow..

about as Crystal clear...as voting "present:...

btk

great article - thanx!

"Instead of calling it "Marriage", would you object to "Civil Union"? Personally, I am for civil unions which would give gay/lesbian couples every right that a married couple has under federal and state laws. Why would you discriminate against a gay or lesbian couple of a civil union to have the same legal rights as a married couple?

Not too many years ago in the USA, it was illegal for blacks and whites to intermarry. That was discrimination, too. Now, we have a President of the USA who is the child of a white woman and black man. Things evolve! And for the better, too!

The civil union of gay/lesbian couples is not really different from a civil ceremony of marriage as performed by a JP or judge. Why should they be treated differently?