The more I read and hear the more I think I either agree with the House Republicans or think no bail out at all.

How does everyone else feel on whether there should be a bail out ?

I think there has to be something. Don't know enough about the alternative proposal that has more private sector involvement. I cannot imagine nor could tolerate any GOP member who would support a bill that featured ACORN receiving potentially billions in de facto taxpayer dollars.

Originally Posted by Bucco

The more I read and hear the more I think I either agree with the House Republicans or think no bail out at all.

How does everyone else feel on whether there should be a bail out ?

NO NO NO NO

I don't trust the same people who got us into this to get us out. Furthermore, I doubt the Congress/Senate intervention in private markets in this way is even Constitutional -- if that even still matters in this Country.

If these folks (i.e., Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Schumer, Reid, Pelosi) were serious at all, then why would 20% be in their proposal for ACORN, Leraza (sp?), and a couple of other groups be getting a piece of the pie? ACORN is currently under indictment yet again.

So again I say NO to bailout. Let the markets work their way out and the ones who should fall, let them fall. Capitalism works if the government would just let it alone. Fannie and Freddie is the best example of how when the government gets into the mix, all goes to hell. Let them go fix social security, medicare and other debacles they have already created and grown into monsters.

P.S. What was Bush thinking picking Paulson (a Democrat, environmental whacko)? I'm done with him too. Disgusted.

No other opinions on something this important ?????

If you love something, you fix something when it's wrong. Blaming the 2 year Congress is laughable. Did the previous 5 years of Bush and the Republican ruled houses not count? Or the 10 million dollars every month shelled out to Iraq? Wow. Talk about selective amnesia! Give me a break!

This thread was begun to ask folks if they are for or against the bail out !!!!! There are other threads to place blame !

My opinion...do not tax me for the mistakes( or should I say deceptive practices) of the wall street CEO's. They need to be kicked out of the plane with no parachute and then investigated for fraud.Let the system right itself. I wrote to and phoned our senator and congressmen and told them that's how I feel.

whether one is heavily invested in todays market.....and that does not mean just stocks. For those who do invest one usually looks to diversity to minimize the girations and day to day swings. However the last 30 days have shown diversity isn't helping much or said another way, there is almost no place to hide and not be affected.
Sooooo, those with little or no investment might have a different view than those who are dependent on the markets for retirement, etc.

Also on previous post it has been discussed there have been bail outs over the years mounting to over $800 Billon.....most just don't remember and some don't want to remember.

If and that is a very big supposition, done properly, managed properly there could be a positive effect. But first all the pork has to be removed from the bill....both sides guilty to a fault trying to load additional billions for the favorite projects....but some how we don't get to hear too much about that....I wonder why?

I suggest before one votes either way on this one you better do a little home work about the implications of a yes or a no.
And please do yourself a favor....don't listen to the media....any of the media...you will only get partisan smoke...both sides.....try to stay party neutral () as you investigate.

BTK

So all we can do is wish you luck......

Originally Posted by TVQueen

NO NO NO NO

I don't trust the same people who got us into this to get us out. Furthermore, I doubt the Congress/Senate intervention in private markets in this way is even Constitutional -- if that even still matters in this Country.

If these folks (i.e., Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Schumer, Reid, Pelosi) were serious at all, then why would 20% be in their proposal for ACORN, Leraza (sp?), and a couple of other groups be getting a piece of the pie? ACORN is currently under indictment yet again.

So again I say NO to bailout. Let the markets work their way out and the ones who should fall, let them fall. Capitalism works if the government would just let it alone. Fannie and Freddie is the best example of how when the government gets into the mix, all goes to hell. Let them go fix social security, medicare and other debacles they have already created and grown into monsters.

P.S. What was Bush thinking picking Paulson (a Democrat, environmental whacko)? I'm done with him too. Disgusted.

TV QUEEN:
I couldn't agree with you more . I saw Blarney Frank on tv the other day. he has lying so much he couldn't look at the camera. This whole think just sickens me.

As a longtime retired banker, let me tell you why.

Banks and other regulated financial institutions now have way too many loans on their books that have or will default and whose book value is doubtful. As the loans decline in value, the difference between book and market value must, by regulation and accounting requirements, be written off, causing a loss on the P&L. When the loss from the P&L is reflected on the bank's balance sheet, it is a charge against the capital accounts. An adequate amount of capital is a requirement of the bank regulations for banks to make loans.

So what we have here in the current financial mess is a huge number of loans (most estimates have the amount as well more than $1 trillion) that reside on bank's books that will be written down or even written off, reducing the bank's capital accounts dollar for dollar. The only way that those capital accounts can be restored or built up is thru retaining profits (not likely that the banks will be profitable anytime soon) or thru the sale of equity (no company would contemplate selling stock in this market). The result of the mess is that not only will banks not be able to make new loans, but they will likely have to reduce the amount of loans they have on their books. Without credit, our economy and the economy of the rest of the world will grind to a halt very, very quickly. If you consider how banks and lenders can correct this problem--increasing capital by being profitable or selling equity--you can easily see how long it will take for the economy to "re-start" and work itself out of this situation. It could be years of negative economic growth, a severely depressed stock market, much incresed unemployment, inflation, an even less valuable dollar--basically a long depression.

Everyone should be incensed at those that caused this problem--Wall Street, greedy bankers, an inattentive Congress, an administration that purposefully weakened bank regulations, lobbyists who "bought off" the politicians, and an American public who didn't give a damn. But at this point, there's no point in being mad and saying No, No, No. That would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces. Unfortunately what needs to be done, in one way or another, is to remove the bad loans from the bank's books so that they can use their capital to make new loans and keep the economy moving--not necessarily growing for awhile, but at least moving. Basically, the government--you and me--will be required to dig deep into our pockets and the pockets of our children and grandchildren to provide the capital to buy the loans and remove them from the banking system. That needs to be done NOW. Correcting the causal factors and getting rid of the people who were behind this mess will have to wait until later. I'm hopeful that will happen and that the public will maintain its collective anger until things are done--but that may be wishful thinking.

I hope this helps everyone understand what's happening.

KAHUNA...you make some valid points. There are those "experts" who disagree and say no bail out. HOWEVER....

Unless we get back to the point where you have to earn credit and home ownership this will happen again. THAT is one of my problems in electing a radical left wing person to the WH with a liberal (just watch some of the videos, etc to learn about the current congress) congress it is not going to happen. There entire premise is to make EVERYONE able to get what they want...NOW.

There are some good folks in congress for sure, but the leaders share a vision with Sen Obama and I see the perfect storm brewing !

Some sort of financial plan has to be agreed upon and passed soon...within days. If not we will all begin to feel real financial pain. Once that is done, we can and should return to getting an understanding of how this happened and making sure that it doesn't happen again.

This "once in a century" financial debacle CANNOT be blamed on any one political party or any one President anymore than expecting that the next U.S. President can or will solve this type of problem or prevent it from happening again. If we are to believe some of the YouTube videos outlining how this happened, it's pretty clear that the causal factors occurred during periods when both the Democrats and the Republicans controlled the White House and Congress. There were plenty of opportunities for responsible elected officials to modify or even eliminate the causes. They didn't because the American public was as greedy as they were, didn't pay attention, and didn't give a damn.

If we think that either of the presidential candidates will solve these problems--or make them worse--during their term of office, we're kidding ourselves. About the most we can hope for is the leadership that can emanate from the White House that will begin to cause Americans to be more thoughtful, less greedy, and more interested in the common good as opposed to the satisfaction of personal needs and desires.

Thank you, V. Kahuna, for posting from a banker's perspective. Interesting and clearly stated.

And all too tragically true. I know.

I write once in awhile about how I talk to bankers from time to time. And I might sound like I am kidding around a little. That is usually my style. But I really do talk to bankers. And I have done it a couple of times during this past week. And they have said the same thing. No choice. And the bankers I know did not put their banks in harm's way. But now we are all in harm's way.

For months I have been using the quote, "Unrestrained greed is not only bad morals, it's bad economics." I could go back through my old posts and find my rants on all this. Months ago. (Hey, maybe now is the time to print up those bumper stickers and t-shirts with my favorite quote. They might sell now.)

But I do not flatter myself for even a moment. I know most of you saw it coming, too. We have been around for awhile. We know about cash and cash flow, and all that entails, and how to make it work. Or we used to know. Or we thought we did.

I wanted to be wrong. I wanted to be so completely, absurdly wrong. I wanted to be wrong about seeing it coming. And so did you.

This was not capitalism in its glory. This was an abomination. An obscenity.

Each of us is angry. Furious. And also maybe feeling something like a little white hot terror.

Arms and legs will grow from this monster. Either way.

The bailout I believe is the lesser of two evils. It has to be. But I cannot trust at all that they got it right. Will we get any bang for the buck?

Boomer

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

...

That needs to be done NOW. Correcting the causal factors and getting rid of the people who were behind this mess will have to wait until later.

...

No, if the root causes are not corrected, then there is no end to the money being thrown at it. If the root causes have not been identified, it's even worse. A quick infusion of cash just means more bad paper will be written unless the ability to write the bad paper and keep the shady deals from being made is stopped.

If none of these problems would have occurred prior to the Gramm-Leach-Blibey Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, then the act needs to be amended or tossed before a dime of bailout money is paid.

Fix the cause or the problem repeats!

Did anyone hear Mort Zuckermann on CNBC this AM, 11:00 AM CST, on how this bailout is full of holes and won't work. This is the sort of information people need to hear, exactly what is wrong with the plan as proposed with all it's giddy little congressional ornaments. We need to replace all of the standing legislators, what a sorry group! (I wish Michael Bloomberg would have thought of running for president, he is a person of interest.) OOPS, gone political on the end there, I'm outta here.