Originally Posted by chelsea24

Since I disagree with just about everything you said, there's obviously no dialogue here. But pleeaaaaaaaaseeeeeeee don't drag out a Hitler analogy. It's just so telling of your mindset. And why, just because President Obama has an 80 percent approval rating, does that mean it's a "drone-like" mentality? That statement is insulting to the American people.

So, if that's what makes you comfortable, just hang on to the old policies of the last eight years that got us where we are today. It's a new world out there and it's arriving at everyone's front door. Good Luck with that.

President Obama has an approval rating today that is normal for an incoming President who hasn't done anything yet. Time will wear that down.

And yes, the blind adoration of a charismatic has a lot of historical precedents, and so far this time matches many of similar situations. Blind adoration and following is symptomatic of cult-like behavior.

There is no "holding on" of the last eight years, but rather most of the last 220 in trying to keep the US from emulating the USSR. If someday you get beyond your hatred of Pres. Bush, you may see that.

And whether you want to accept it or not, it is not a "new world out there," but the same dangerous one that has had most of this planet involved in some kind of warfare since homo sapiens threw his first rock. The flower-child mentality hasn't changed that. Somehow, I just don't see Mr. Putin, Mr. bin Laden, Mr. Ahmadinejad and others like them accepting a posey from someone and smiling happily into consolation.

If there is no dialogue, it is because of a lack of believe that one could be wrong. I accept the fact that I could be wrong, and want to learn as much as I can about why and how people believe what they do, in the hope of becoming less wrong about things. I actually hope to be proven wrong on how I see things, as I have been taught that education requires a willingness to accept facts not before known to modify an opinion, and humility starts with accepting that one does not always possess all of the facts. Arrogance is simply intellectual bullying or nastiness when facts become impediments to one's position.

When you open the front door to view that "new world," here's hoping it still allows free thought...

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

Please read your history. SteveZ was not dragging out a Hitler analogy as you want to think, he names the Hitler-Jugend which was the Hitler youth movement that followed their new leader blindly without thought to his end state or agenda.

Many people on both sides are saying they "do not know this man" and what he stands for. Yet as the Hitler-Jugend followed him, they to are following Obama. Actually a good historical analogy. Their are several others but many of the others followed their leadership out of fear. In the 1930's Germany, they followed because this leader told them what they wanted to hear and promised fixing all the problems created by prior leadership during and after WWI.

It's more an analogy of the masses following any leader with blind faith.

Sorry, I do know my history but I still think this goes back to fear-mongering and a bad analogy. This is name calling just wrapped in a cloak of faux patriotism. Why is it that some people cannot accept that others are NOT just blindly following President Obama. That they truly believe in his policies. That's what I find so insulting to the American people. Are you saying then that 80% of Americans are now just a flock of sheep? Are you saying that you, and the Conservatives, are the ONLY ones that have studied the issues? Give me a break!

The American public has voted. He's only been in office for three days for God's sake! Support your President. These are unprecedented times of crisis. Suck it up and pitch in and help.

Since I disagree with just about everything you said, there's obviously no dialogue here.

With that statement Chelsea, I think you've made l2's, SteveZ and others' points. There is no dialogue because you say so !!!! There is no discussion because you won't allow yourself to think of any other viewpoint but the One's !!! Facts and data be danged.

Good luck with that.

What specific things does Obama support that you support and hope he succeeds at changing or implementing?

Give us specific policies and regulations, don't just say "change" or "fixing the economy." Maybe include why or how you believe it will make the county better.

chelsea24. others, take a shot at it.

Originally Posted by TallerTrees

Since I disagree with just about everything you said, there's obviously no dialogue here.

With that statement Chelsea, I think you've made l2's, SteveZ and others' points. There is no dialogue because you say so !!!! There is no discussion because you won't allow yourself to think of any other viewpoint but the One's !!! Facts and data be danged.

Good luck with that.

What are the facts and data? He's only been in office for 3 days. OMG!

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Sorry, I do know my history but I still think this goes back to fear-mongering and a bad analogy. This is name calling just wrapped in a cloak of faux patriotism. Why is it that some people cannot accept that others are NOT just blindly following President Obama. That they truly believe in his policies. That's what I find so insulting to the American people. Are you saying then that 80% of Americans are now just a flock of sheep? Are you saying that you, and the Conservatives, are the ONLY ones that have studied the issues? Give me a break!

The American public has voted. He's only been in office for three days for God's sake! Support your President. These are unprecedented times of crisis. Suck it up and pitch in and help.

When the President has to deal with the world and place a singe American face to the international community, he will be supported. We are all one when in dealing with the rest of the international community. However, within this nation, he will be challenged - as all before him - to demonstrate the why and how - to the individuals, not the adoring herd, amongst us. Why should it be any different for Mr. Obama than the 43 presidents before him?

80% of Americans (that approval rating) bends with the wind, and will bend each time someone's personal ox is gored.

Yes, Mr. Obama has been elected - not coronated. He will have to expect performance reviews by the citizenry every day he is in office - just like the 43 before him - from everyone within the citizenty. Supporting the president is not necessarily agreeing with EVERYTHING he says or proposes. If you believe that blind obedience to party doctrine or administration policies is "supporting," that is your choice. I like to think for myself.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

What are the facts and data? He's only been in office for 3 days. OMG!

But he has been campaigning for 18 months or longer. He has indicated a socialist agenda and strong central government which abridges States' Rights and individual choice. That's what's on the table.

I can respect your believing in all his policies and goals - the question is, can you respect that others don't.

I honestly don't think most Obama supporters know what his objectives, policies, and goals are.

through this thread. My observations of what has been posted so far is that most people have given honest, thoughtful, ideas or opinions and then there are the few that will defend only those ideas that don't conflict with their classic left viewpoints. Freedom of speech, thought, ideas, actions, for the liberal left are reserved for them only. All others need not apply.

Historically, in spite of the dictionary meaning of the word liberal, liberal governments are the ones that want a strong central government that TELLS us whats best for us, instead of us taking care of ourselves. The liberals want to regulate every aspect of our lives because they feel that THEY are more capable of knowing what is good for us.

Conservative governments, in spite of what the word conservative says in the dictionary, want less government in our lives. A conservative government actually WANTS us to be more responsible for our lives. The conservatives aim is to deregulate our lives because we are capable of making our own decisions.

As a conservative, I feel that no one is saying that they want a failed government of either party. Conservatives simply want a government that has minimal intrusions into their lives and federal policies that defend us, not control us. Nazism, socialism, communism have all had strong central governments, governments that are liberal (controlling) of their people. Free peoples fear that type of government and are ever watchful for it.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

But he has been campaigning for 18 months or longer. He has indicated a socialist agenda and strong central government which abridges States' Rights and individual choice. That's what's on the table.

I can respect your believing in all his policies and goals - the question is, can you respect that others don't.

I do respect other's opinions. But, not when they are peppered with words like "blind faith", "adoring herd" or coronation, it becomes not only ridiculous, but insulting.

If you want to use terms like that, you should have used them on Bush. Here was a man that wanted to be Emperor. Unfortunately for him, the citizens saw that he wasn't wearing any clothing.

Originally Posted by gnu

through this thread. My observations of what has been posted so far is that most people have given honest, thoughtful, ideas or opinions and then there are the few that will defend only those ideas that don't conflict with their classic left viewpoints. Freedom of speech, thought, ideas, actions, for the liberal left are reserved for them only. All others need not apply.

Historically, in spite of the dictionary meaning of the word liberal, liberal governments are the ones that want a strong central government that TELLS us whats best for us, instead of us taking care of ourselves. The liberals want to regulate every aspect of our lives because they feel that THEY are more capable of knowing what is good for us.

Conservative governments, in spite of what the word conservative says in the dictionary, want less government in our lives. A conservative government actually WANTS us to be more responsible for our lives. The conservatives aim is to deregulate our lives because we are capable of making our own decisions.

As a conservative, I feel that no one is saying that they want a failed government of either party. Conservatives simply want a government that has minimal intrusions into their lives and federal policies that defend us, not control us. Nazism, socialism, communism have all had strong central governments, governments that are liberal (controlling) of their people. Free peoples fear that type of government and are ever watchful for it.

Conservatives want less government until some disaster hit's their own home. Then the "it's all about me" mentality comes out.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

I do respect other's opinions. But, not when they are peppered with words like "blind faith", "adoring herd" or coronation, it becomes not only ridiculous, but insulting.

If you want to use terms like that, you should have used them on Bush. Here was a man that wanted to be Emperor. Unfortunately for him, the citizens saw that he wasn't wearing any clothing.

Conservatives want less government until some disaster hit's their own home. Then the "it's all about me" mentality comes out.

Chels, The terminology you used to describe Pres. Bush and those around him was brutal. That apparently was okay. "Insulting" must be interpretive by "I like" or "I don't like."

Yes, conservatives, and progressive neanderthals, prefer less government at ALL times. We don't need "government" to take over our personal responsibilities so we don't have to be responsible for anything. We can think for ourselves and don't need "daddy" or "mommy" overseeing our lives and telling us what's good for us.

When the socialism gets to a point that it tells you how long you can live, and when compulsory end-of-life shall be, maybe then the leftists might actually believe that government is finally too big - maybe...

Your "it's all about me" comment, I really don't understand.

I occurs to me SteveZ, that if you and I have this much trouble agreeing on anything, just imagine what goes on in the Senate and Congress! Wow, and we don't have the weight of the world on our shoulders. Personally, I'm wishing everyone good luck at this point.

Quite frankly, I think both of us are taking this to the extreme. I'm betting all is more moderate than is being foretold.

I'm not a blind sheep, but I am an optimist and all I was asking for was to give our (yours too) President more than 3 days to see what plays out. Again, this is an unprecedented crisis and more than any other President, he needs our support. It was not my intention to regurgitate the election, the votes have been cast.

Obama has made it pretty clear what he intends to do.

I think that's really the main thing dividing our country. Conservatives are generally more self-sufficient, self-reliant and take more personal responsibility for their current circumstances and future promise. The left tends to relay more on the government and solutions provided by others for their future outcomes and general well being.

Much as the very debate is here, some of us want the government out of the way and let the people get this country moving yet others see the government as the only way out and the only solution to our problems.

It seems to me over the years there are more and more people with their hands out looking for entitlements.

Obama plays into that sentiment very well. The government can be all things to all people and apparently that's what at least 1/2 our county wants.

The next 4 - 8 years will be a battle for our soul and I have no doubt our founding fathers are turning over in their graves.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

I occurs to me SteveZ, that if you and I have this much trouble agreeing on anything, just imagine what goes on in the Senate and Congress! Wow, and we don't have the weight of the world on our shoulders. Personally, I'm wishing everyone good luck at this point.

Quite frankly, I think both of us are taking this to the extreme. I'm betting all is more moderate that is being foretold.

I'm not a blind sheep, but I am an optimist and all I was asking for was to give our (yours too) President more than 3 days to see what plays out. Again, this is an unprecedented crisis and more than any other President, he needs our support. It was not my intention to regurgitate the election, the votes have been cast.

For some reason, I'm reminded of a classic scene in Men in Black, where Will Smith has just fired his weapon at the dangerous alien, gets chastised by Tommy Lee Jones for the shooting, responds with a comment about an alien spaceship ready to destroy Earth. Tommy Lee Jones replies with, "There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they Do... Not... Know about it!"

This economic crisis is "just another crisis" that occurs during a nation's history. I can think of many with significant impact that the public knows about: 9/11, Cuban Missile, Dot.Com crash, Lockerbie, Vietnam, Gulf I and Gulf II are a few. Also, there have been others which didn't get public exposure, for good reason.

All presidents need support, but they don't need 300 million yes-men agreeing to everything. All plans and ideas need to be subjected to hard scrutiny, because if they can't hold their own to the scrutiny, they may not be so hot after all. The concept of "loyal opposition" as devil's advocate is a proven one which has great merit in a free society.

Thank heaven we are free to debate - many others don't have that right to share ideas and opinions, but must march to a single drummer.

We have it made!