Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

My own health insurance is much the same as your own. I had major surgery in late April and my hotel bill for my wife staying in downtown Chicago while I was in the hospital was more than my deductible and co-pays for the procedure. It works well for me. I would be perfectly justified in saying, "don't change a thing in my behalf--I'm just fine, thank you very much".

But what about the people who don't qualify for Medicare (the "single payer government system" that many say will be the death knell for American healthcare)? I've read statistics that 14,000 people per day are losing their health insurance because their employers are discontinuing medial insurance as a fringe benefit. The premiums have escalated beyond the point where the employer can afford to pay them.

And the illegal immigrants, of course. The lobbyists have been quite effective in gutting any proposed immigration reforms because employers want and like the cheap labor provided by those crossing our borders illegally. We all know that even the illegals can get emergency care for nothing. It's not really "nothing". of course. The costs get shifted eventually to those that are paying insurance premiums, like the employers who can no longer afford to do so. By the way, would anyone disagree that this is really a "transfer of wealth"?

What a Catch 22. The critical problem is fast becoming grave. Fewer and fewer people have reasonable healthcare coverage. And the lobbyists are hard at work making sure that it stays that way--or gets worse.

And this is indeed a major problem, if not THE major problem affecting everything else. WHY are these employers reducing health benefits? The answer is the simple one we all kn ow - employers have to compete and employee compensation (wages, benefits, taxes and employer-required insurances for unemployment, etc) are a cost to be considered. Employers are reducing employee compensation costs wherever possible, and in the trade-off of wages versus benefits (the rest are 'stuck' costs), employees (when polled) would rather have a slice in benefits rather thas a smaller wage amount.

So, how do we make it possible for employers to compete, and who are they competing against? That's an economic - not a health care - question, and when answered and the fix put in place, health care for employees solves itself.

Even with a government-run single-payer system, the moneys for it come from what an employer has in his/her employee compensation costs. That amount is fixed, and the pieces that make it up are variable. Making employers pay a fixed number just reduces something else, and 'that net amount an employee takes home is the variable that will suffer. Anyone who believes the employee will gain in the end has never run a business.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

And this is indeed a major problem, if not THE major problem affecting everything else. WHY are these employers reducing health benefits? The answer is the simple one we all kn ow - employers have to compete and employee compensation (wages, benefits, taxes and employer-required insurances for unemployment, etc) are a cost to be considered. Employers are reducing employee compensation costs wherever possible, and in the trade-off of wages versus benefits (the rest are 'stuck' costs), employees (when polled) would rather have a slice in benefits rather thas a smaller wage amount.

So, how do we make it possible for employers to compete, and who are they competing against? That's an economic - not a health care - question, and when answered and the fix put in place, health care for employees solves itself.

Even with a government-run single-payer system, the moneys for it come from what an employer has in his/her employee compensation costs. That amount is fixed, and the pieces that make it up are variable. Making employers pay a fixed number just reduces something else, and 'that net amount an employee takes home is the variable that will suffer. Anyone who believes the employee will gain in the end has never run a business.

There are many many reports that generally say that costs to employers would increase with a single payer system, and thus to Steve's point, either reduce the employee's bottom line or at least increase the cost of goods.

Also the CBO has said they project that health costs under the current House plan will increase at a rate of MORE than 8% per year between 2017 and 2018 and increase at a similiar rate as time goes on.

Chelsea24 you have to go to a rural regional medical center .
They are not for profit org's getting grants from the us gov't.

They are required to give free medical attention when the patient cannot pay.

There is probably enough government waste to provide those without coverage, with coverage ( or at least a small portion of it). I'd like to see zero based budgeting in the Federal Government. Get the feds out of ANYTHING that isn't specifically covered by the Constitution or involving interstate governance.

A uniform military comes to mind as something that is properly Federally covered and not the subsidization of tobacco growing, which we as a nation spend probably billions in health care for cancer related illnesses.

Interstate commerce and transportation is needed, lest we fall to a cacophony of individual state laws. Paying farmers NOT to grow crops is ridiculous, so stop the payments.

Subsidized loans to electric utility companies under the Rural Electrification Program needs to stop. This program provides low interest loans to electric companies, for the asking, even if the companies are profitable. Any company that received a loan in the past is eligible, no means testing required.

The list of unneeded government spending is so large, and so many people feed off of the government largess, that even the government doesn't know where they spend the money.

Less government, fiscal sanity, freedom to choose, individual state and personal rights are needed in this modern society.

Am I rambling, I guess so. But with the insanity of government spending it's easy to get caught up in the merry go round of thoughts.

Originally Posted by gnu

...Am I rambling...

No way. All good ideas as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if the savings would be sufficient to fund care for everyone who doesn't have it or can't afford it, but it would be a start.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Health Care is an extremely emotional issue for some. My husband and I have wonderful health care. But, my best friend in Chicago is 55 and works for a law firm. They do not provide health insurance any longer and she cannot afford it. She just found a lump in her breast and cannot afford to go to a doctor. People say hospitals and doctors will work with you. She tried that. They don't. Would any of you anti-public healthcare proponents care to tell her what to do???

Health Care in America should be just as much of a "Fundamental Right" as carrying your precious guns. In fact, more.

As long as there is one homeless person in this country, one starving child, one American without Health Care... "The American Dream" will remain a myth.

Chelsea....has she tried this site? It sounds like it has a lot of options. It also provides a lot of contact numbers including one directly to the Governor's Office. If it was me, I'd rattle the cage right at the top. Do you know any doctors or politicians in Illinois that can work that site for her?

http://www.hfs.illinois.gov/medical/apply.html

Maybe someone can hit the phones for her and find help within this system. Perhaps they can find a way to speed up the process.

I hope she gets the attention she needs and this info is useful.

It is not the governments business to provide health insurance. Every time the government legislates that something should be mandatory...well...wasn't it the government (Bush and Congress) that was telling everybody that every American should own a home? How did that work out?????? Yea, see what I mean?

Chelsea, Here in FL she could go to any of the University Medical Schools and receive treatment. If the schools in Illinois do not do this, get her on a plane, fly her down here and go to Gainesville.

Cashman, Cabo35 and BBQMAN, I would like to sincerely thank you for your thoughtful and helpful advice. I am going to look into each and every avenue you mentioned... right now she just seems frozen in fear.

As I said, this is a very emotional issue for me. The matter of health care reform is overwhelming. And my friend is in that murky area of having a full time job, earning a salary (which has been frozen for the last two years) so she doesn't qualify for some of the programs out there, being 55, not old enough for Medicare, but not young enough to be desirable in the job market to even look for a job with benefits.... a woman alone and I'll tell you, it's scary and dark out there.

Now, of course, health care is not just a woman's issue, it is a human issue. A year ago January my beloved brother-in-law passed away from a particularly vicious form of cancer. He had worked for United Airlines for over 30 years. In that time, his salary had been so down-graded and cut, he was making just a little more than when he had started. Pension and 401K, gone. Everything he had worked his whole life for. The one shining light is this tragedy was that his health care from United Airlines, covered all of his bills, which were tremendous. Three surgeries, chemo, radiation, experimental programs. Just beyond belief.

I remember the last time we saw him alive, he told my husband (his brother) the life insurance from United was such that if he died before Janurary, his wife would get $200,000. But if he lived until after Janurary 1st, she would only get $20,000. Such was the way the company had set things up. He died January 8th. Honestly, I don't know how she's going to make it, 3 children, the youngest only 12. Of course, we helped and will help.

I know I'm rambling, but my point is that all my brother-in-law had was his health care. The only thing that put a twinkle in his eye was when he would say "Well, at least my medical bills are covered."

I feel with every fiber of my being, that this should be provided to every American. I can't give you numbers and Lord knows I'm not smart enough to know how it will be paid for, but I know this country was built by people with backbone. People that did not just sit and call each other names. People of foresight and ingenuity. People that did not just say "let's kill this bill to make the President look bad." People that cared about the good of all. People that used their knowledge and creativity to get the job done. I know this can be done... and it is not a dream I will give up on. It is not an issue that can be tossed aside any longer.

Well, call it Socialized Medicine, call it Universal Health Care, call it whatever you like. But, let's get the job done. And if "transfer of wealth" means "transfer of health" again, let's get the job done. As I stated before, I think this is fundamental right of all Americans. No, it's not in the Bill of Rights. But, in my opinion, it should have been.

Again, as I count my blessings, I thank you for your kind advice and allowing me to vent. I'll leave you with one of my favorite sayings... "No man is as tall as when he stoops to help another." Sincerely, chels

"People that did not just say "let's kill this bill to make the President look bad."

It was a good speech until I got to that statement. Do you really think that is the reason most people don't want socialized medicine?

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Cashman, Cabo35 and BBQMAN, I would like to sincerely thank you for your thoughtful and helpful advice. I am going to look into each and every avenue you mentioned... right now she just seems frozen in fear.

As I said, this is a very emotional issue for me. The matter of health care reform is overwhelming. And my friend is in that murky area of having a full time job, earning a salary (which has been frozen for the last two years) so she doesn't qualify for some of the programs out there, being 55, not old enough for Medicare, but not young enough to be desirable in the job market to even look for a job with benefits.... a woman alone and I'll tell you, it's scary and dark out there.

Now, of course, health care is not just a woman's issue, it is a human issue. A year ago January my beloved brother-in-law passed away from a particularly vicious form of cancer. He had worked for United Airlines for over 30 years. In that time, his salary had been so down-graded and cut, he was making just a little more than when he had started. Pension and 401K, gone. Everything he had worked his whole life for. The one shining light is this tragedy was that his health care from United Airlines, covered all of his bills, which were tremendous. Three surgeries, chemo, radiation, experimental programs. Just beyond belief.

I remember the last time we saw him alive, he told my husband (his brother) the life insurance from United was such that if he died before Janurary, his wife would get $200,000. But if he lived until after Janurary 1st, she would only get $20,000. Such was the way the company had set things up. He died January 8th. Honestly, I don't know how she's going to make it, 3 children, the youngest only 12. Of course, we helped and will help.

I know I'm rambling, but my point is that all my brother-in-law had was his health care. The only thing that put a twinkle in his eye was when he would say "Well, at least my medical bills are covered."

I feel with every fiber of my being, that this should be provided to every American. I can't give you numbers and Lord knows I'm not smart enough to know how it will be paid for, but I know this country was built by people with backbone. People that did not just sit and call each other names. People of foresight and ingenuity. People that did not just say "let's kill this bill to make the President look bad." People that cared about the good of all. People that used their knowledge and creativity to get the job done. I know this can be done... and it is not a dream I will give up on. It is not an issue that can be tossed aside any longer.

Well, call it Socialized Medicine, call it Universal Health Care, call it whatever you like. But, let's get the job done. And if "transfer of wealth" means "transfer of health" again, let's get the job done. As I stated before, I think this is fundamental right of all Americans. No, it's not in the Bill of Rights. But, in my opinion, it should have been.

Again, as I count my blessings, I thank you for your kind advice and allowing me to vent. I'll leave you with one of my favorite sayings... "No man is as tall as when he stoops to help another." Sincerely, chels

I can't fault your logic and feelings on this. If we can take care of the rest of the world, we should be able to take care of our own. Veterans have been saying that for a hundred years.

I do think there are limits, and they should be fenced with citizenship as the standing requirement. If non-citizens eceive taxpayer-funded health care, then their countries of citizenship should be liable for the costs (and then those nations can figure out how to get reimbursement from their citizens).

The government has several health care programs it runs now, with the US Public Health Service (http://www.usphs.gov/) being the most competent and least known and understood. Yet, no plan so far capitalizes on what's in existence and working. It just seems logical to say that all Americans should be eligible for care from the US Public Health Service, and the management/delivery of those services should be the cornerstone for those in need (e.g., means tested) or circumstance-tested). That system (http://www.usphs.gov/multimedia/duty...O/default.aspx) is already the foundation for "national health care," and any expansion of the customer base should simply be in consonance with expansion of the US Public Health Service itself.

My prayers are with your friend and family.

Somehow the american's have been desentized as to what taxes are and refer to them as transfer of wealth, taxing the rich, etc. It must be remembered that taxes are nothing more than the government taking the money from one person and giving it in some way to someone else. THe government has no money. They take it from you and me. They want to take more money from the rich and give it away. If that is not socialism I don't know what is !! We elect mainly Attorney's to congress, elect some guy from Chicago who never ran a business and they want to demand to take money from us and set up some sort of a medical business that will consume one seventh of the national gross product. Are we insane or what?
The Constitution as been run over by a steam roller and the citizens are just now waking up..At some point returning to the Democracy which served us so well for all these years will be very painful. THe pain will be determined by how long we wait to stop these people from ruining our lives. Senior citizens should be outraged. Did you know that in the UK if you are over 59 there are certain medical procedures that you can not have because you are old!
How sad it is to watch this generation pass on to the next a wreck of a society. God help us.

How sad it is to watch this generation pass on to the next a wreck of a society. God help us.

I agree, sometimes I think that the hippies of the 60's didn't die...they just went into hibernation for 40 years. The majority of the greatest generation have passed on, but their offspring continue to cause havoc.

When the war ended they cut their hair and traveled to Wall Street....now after 4 decades of ravishing the system and stockpiling their wealth, they have reverted back to their preaching ways again.
Do as we say...not what we did.

It was a theory that ancient Rome was brought down because the Roman's ate out of clay pots that hasd lead in them. Sometime I wonder if we are not eating out clay pots? My hope is that come the next election for Congress the population will take serious what is going on and elect only members who are Constitutionaly dedicated regardless Democrat or Republican. 40 or 50 people have been appointed as "Czars" over certain areas of society and they are not vetted nor do they have to be accountable to the Congress. If that doesn't scare you then nothing will and welcome to the Socialistic America where the government owns your salary and income and they are your employers. You no longer are challenged to excel as the government will tell you what you can earn and take your earnings and give them to someone who does not want to work. Like I say, "God Help Us"..

Readers may want to read this to get some background on the dangers of the health plan being presented. Understanding the issue is key to protecting our great country..

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...ies_first.html