Originally Posted by Guest

There was no CSA flag flown at the state capital in SC until the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's. Then the segregationist leadership of that state, and others, responded by claiming that they could defy the federal government (just like they had 100 years earlier). And as part of this state's speech SC chose to begin to fly the stars and bars over their statehouse. It was a clear response to laws enacted to help black Americans achieve equality. That is not an accident of history. It is a clear message to black Americans. The CSA flag is no more a symbol that is legitimately used to honor the South's history of starting the most brutal war fought by the USA than flying the flag of Nazi Germany can be said to honor the German's who died for their country and fought out of German patriotism, perhaps not fully aware of the policies of their leadership.
The Nazi flag is of course still revered by some and its meaning is not German pride. The CSA flag is still revered by some, and its meaning is not Southern pride. It is not surprising that Mr. Roof on his personal website has photos of himself proudly holding the CSA flag while also burning and spitting on the American flag. You fly the CSA flag, you are speaking very clearly. You wish the CSA had won that war and that the darkies were still on the plantation.

Excellent post

Originally Posted by Guest

Just FYI regarding the flag and the KKK -

The Real Flag Of The Ku Klux Klan - KKK

Don't know anything about this site or KKK for that matter, just googled "the flag of the KKK" and this is one of articles I found.

Just now found this - Ku Klux Klan (U.S. organization)

Once again, by no means am I a promoter of any kind for this organization, but I do hate disinformation!

Well, you are spreading disinformation.
If you use photos from the 1920's you will see American flags. If you look at Klan activities from the 1960's forward you will see CSA flags in far greater number. Even on the website you linked, look at only color photo which is the only one taken in the last 60 years. Proudly hanging next to the USA flag is the CSA flag. The B&W photo here is from a Klan march in the 1980's in NC. The other is from your linked website and undated.
And if you really don't understand the close connection of the KKK to the Confederate flag I offer a google image search for you using KKK rally
https://www.google.com/search?q=kkk+...h&q=kkk+rally+

With some research we see that the flag of the CSA is not the same flag as is commonly associated with the Confederacy. The design used on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was never officially recognized as one of the national flags. It was rejected as a national flag in 1861.

It's a battle flag, not a national flag. It represents all who died in the civil war

Originally Posted by Guest

With some research we see that the flag of the CSA is not the same flag as is commonly associated with the Confederacy. The design used on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was never officially recognized as one of the national flags. It was rejected as a national flag in 1861.

IF you go back and look at the first post, the OP states the flag is the confederate battle flag. Yes, it is a point that ALL the GOP candidates must address during this campaign. Yes, the KKK does use that sign of white supremacy along with the American flag.

Is the Nazi swastika allowed to fly anywhere in Germany? NO!

The confederate battle flag is comparable to the Nazi swastika. The KKK and the Nazis have much in common such as white supremacy.

Originally Posted by Guest

It's a battle flag, not a national flag. It represents all who died in the civil war

The Nazi swastika flag represents those who died in WWII. It is outlawed in Germany.

how very amusing.....a minority (not race) special interest group attempting to take to task another minority (not race here either) special interest group.

And some so brazen as to claim they have the majority to back their position.

Let's just agree to disagree. The confederate flag was not designed or intended to represent racism. In recent years, once again, special interest groups have been continuing to categorize a subject to fit their cause.

Think about the future of the Americam flag. At what point will it be determined by the majority....that would no longer be US.....to represent a whiteness that prohibeted people of color from being Americans......or something like that.

No? I would not bet against it given the trend of changing and redefining going on in America today.

It is the flag adopted by the segregationist of the KKK and others to represent their beliefs. It doesn't matter one whit whether it was a flag of Northern Virginia or a squadron of dung beetles. It is now a very clear symbol of the desire to reassert white domination of this country and that blacks are an inferior species. I don't need history lessons, I am very well versed in history. Flags mean what the users of those flags represent. It is no accident that Roof had the Rhodesian flag on his clothes. He was not honoring the sacrifices of Mr Rhodes, he was honoring its modern association with the racist view of the world he shared. We don't represent the dead of Nazi Germany by flying the Nazi flag. We don't even represent the dead of the Union soldiers, or the WW I soldiers by displaying the flag under which they fought. We use the modern USA flag. So stop the excuse based on what the flag might have meant in 1862. It now means segregation, racism, bigotry to all those with any degree of decency. Even the very conservative state of Texas understood the meaning of that flag. And every time that CSA flag is held high above a white sheet, above a Nazi salute, its modern day meaning is made ever clearer

Originally Posted by Guest

how very amusing.....a minority (not race) special interest group attempting to take to task another minority (not race here either) special interest group.

And some so brazen as to claim they have the majority to back their position.

Let's just agree to disagree. The confederate flag was not designed or intended to represent racism. In recent years, once again, special interest groups have been continuing to categorize a subject to fit their cause.

Think about the future of the Americam flag. At what point will it be determined by the majority....that would no longer be US.....to represent a whiteness that prohibeted people of color from being Americans......or something like that.

No? I would not bet against it given the trend of changing and redefining going on in America today.

No, I WILL NOT agree to disagree with you. You are WRONG. The confederate flag was part of the slaveholding South which is the epitomy of racism.

As for the second part of your statement - ignorant.

Originally Posted by Guest

It is the flag adopted by the segregationist of the KKK and others to represent their beliefs. It doesn't matter one whit whether it was a flag of Northern Virginia or a squadron of dung beetles. It is now a very clear symbol of the desire to reassert white domination of this country and that blacks are an inferior species. I don't need history lessons, I am very well versed in history. Flags mean what the users of those flags represent. It is no accident that Roof had the Rhodesian flag on his clothes. He was not honoring the sacrifices of Mr Rhodes, he was honoring its modern association with the racist view of the world he shared. We don't represent the dead of Nazi Germany by flying the Nazi flag. We don't even represent the dead of the Union soldiers, or the WW I soldiers by displaying the flag under which they fought. We use the modern USA flag. So stop the excuse based on what the flag might have meant in 1862. It now means segregation, racism, bigotry to all those with any degree of decency. Even the very conservative state of Texas understood the meaning of that flag. And every time that CSA flag is held high above a white sheet, above a Nazi salute, its modern day meaning is made ever clearer

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/20/us...e-iphone-share


So good and so true. South Carolinians love this flag so much that it will take a super-majority vote in both the house and senate to make any changes, unless of course they change the law requiring a super-majority. Changing the law would only require a simple majority.

The only optimistic caveat towards removing the flag is South Carolina's changing demographics and the business community.

Once again, the point is made that no back and forth dialogue can be had on some of these threads. You try to post links as simply examples and posters take them out of context. My point in posting was not to say that I know it all, or to prove this one or that wrong, but to just get people to think about intentions instead of assumptions. It was my mistaken notion that anyone here would want dialogue that may bring understanding. Apparently the only important thing to some is to push their agenda. So go at it - I've got better things to do.

How about a lol. I don't know how to do it, but I would bet the results of it would be to remove it.

Lol, that lol above was supposed to read poll.

I believe you will find that the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people just as does the American Flag, the Christian Cross, a pro ball's team logo, etc. and this debate all ends up being someone's opinion.

The issue to me is First Amendment rights to free speech, etc. and I believe that it is important no matter how one feels to allow a person, a state to make that choice. We have groups like Freedom From Religion and the ACLU making a concerted effort to remove religion from America because they say it offends some people but the essence of free speech is that you are going to offend somebody but only when those offending move to the next levels does it matter.

A KKK member who verbally espouses his belief exercises his First Amendment rights and those who opposed that idea express their contempt to this KKKer beliefs. It is not a problem unless either of these groups carries this belief to a higher and more invasive level

I am not concerned that South Carolina chooses to fly the Confederate Flag because it is clear that black Americans are not interfered with in any respect in this state.

What gauls me most is that this issue is really being used as a political stunt for the politically ambitious

We have many problems to be resolved in this country and this dispute over a flag is just plain silly

Personal Best Regards:

Originally Posted by Guest

I believe you will find that the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people just as does the American Flag, the Christian Cross, a pro ball's team logo, etc. and this debate all ends up being someone's opinion.

The issue to me is First Amendment rights to free speech, etc. and I believe that it is important no matter how one feels to allow a person, a state to make that choice. We have groups like Freedom From Religion and the ACLU making a concerted effort to remove religion from America because they say it offends some people but the essence of free speech is that you are going to offend somebody but only when those offending move to the next levels does it matter.

A KKK member who verbally espouses his belief exercises his First Amendment rights and those who opposed that idea express their contempt to this KKKer beliefs. It is not a problem unless either of these groups carries this belief to a higher and more invasive level

I am not concerned that South Carolina chooses to fly the Confederate Flag because it is clear that black Americans are not interfered with in any respect in this state.

What gauls me most is that this issue is really being used as a political stunt for the politically ambitious

We have many problems to be resolved in this country and this dispute over a flag is just plain silly

Personal Best Regards:

you could not be more insensitive and more wrong if you tried. The ACLU of course has supported the first amendment more strongly than any right wing organization including HATE speech when that speech is made by private individuals. If you want to fly your CSA flag to proudly display your disdain for ongoing racism it is your 1st amendment right and the ACLU will come to your support.

As to your blatant ignorance of the ongoing racial issues in South Carolina I will only need to point out to you that the judge who has been handling this case for the government has been removed because in open court 10 years ago he referred to black Americans as *******. In open court on the record and he was allowed to continue to hear cases and judge black persons. Was that blind justice or blindingly racist beliefs being tolerated? And we may not have problem any greater than racism in this country. Keep your personal regards, they seem to be tainted and I don't need that stain on me.