Originally Posted by djplong;***472

Most of "them" (again, I stress in THIS country) *don't* need Sharia law.

What part of this aren't you getting? Did you look at the numbers from the recent Gallup poll I linked to? It clearly states that American Muslims reject violence EVEN MORE THAN CHRISTIANS DO.

In case you missed it, I'll quote it for you.

Question: "Some people think that for the military to kill civilians is sometimes justified while other think that it is never justified. Which is your opinion?"

Protestant: 38% Never, 58% Sometimes.
Catholic: 39% Never, 58% Sometimes.
Jewish: 43% Never, 53% Sometimes.
Atheist/Agnostic/None: 56% Never 43% Sometimes.
Muslim: 78% Never, 21% Sometimes.

Take a good hard look at that and tell me how that cognitive dissonance feels.

Try this one...

Question: "Some people think that for an individual person or small group of persons to target and kill civilians is sometimes justified while other think that kind of violence is never justified. Which is your opinion?"

Protestant: 71% Never, 26% Sometimes.
Catholic: 71% Never, 27% Sometimes.
Jewish: 75% Never, 22% Sometimes.
Atheist/Agnostic/None: 76% Never 23% Sometimes.
Muslim: 89% Never, 11% Sometimes.

This reality is clashing with your pre-conceived notions.

Again, I'll re-stress this was a poll done of AMERICAN Muslims.

Oh, and that "Sunday morning only Christian" you mention? Took me about 10 seconds to find a 2005 poll showing that only 45% of Protestants and Catholics attended mass every week. (For comparison, in 1955, 75% of Catholics and 42% of Protestants did)

Just wondering how those muslims who were the main players of the 9/11 attacks would have responded to that poll while they were living here and "casing the joint" ???

Just wondering how those muslims who were the main players of the 9/11 attacks would have responded to that poll while they were living here and "casing the joint" ???

Do you think Tim McVeigh would have answered honestly when he was plotting to blow up a building that had a day care on the ground floor?

Originally Posted by KatzPajamas;***478

You state that the poll clearly states that American Muslims reject violence EVEN MORE THAN CHRISTIANS DO...BUT the question posed by the poll is Question: "Some people think that for the military to kill civilians is sometimes justified while other think that it is never justified. Which is your opinion?"

Your conclusion and the poll results do not fit together...

...which is why I included the other question. In both cases, Muslims said violence was "Never" justified in higher numbers than Christians.

...and to make my point even clearer, *ATHEISTS* (albeit a liberal definition that included agnostics and 'none') rejected violence more than Christians.

Another point that I'm trying to make is - what is it that we have here in the U.S. that seems to be an antidote against Islamofascists? My theory is that it's the same thing that keeps Communists (and people like that odd self-proclaimed Anarchist-Communist) and others from gaining too many adherents. ...and we seem to have more of "it" than they do in Europe. My *guess* is it's economic success. Even our LOUSY economy is orders of magnitude better than others. Other democratic economic success stories aren't having the issues with Islamofascists - countries like South Korea and Japan.

Originally Posted by djplong;***573

Do you think Tim McVeigh would have answered honestly when he was plotting to blow up a building that had a day care on the ground floor?

Do you think that Muslims will answer honetly what they believe about violence? Especially when you know that a main doctrine of their religion is to deceive the enemy/infidels/unbelievers...?

Originally Posted by djplong;***573

Do you think Tim McVeigh would have answered honestly when he was plotting to blow up a building that had a day care on the ground floor?

You make my point. The polls you mention are meaningless !

Listen to speeches by G.W.Bush (Self proclaimed Christian) and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (self proclaimed Muslim) and you will see, hear and feel the difference between a Muslim and all other religions. Keep in mind that both represent Millions of followers of each specific faith.

Originally Posted by The Villager II;***601

Listen to speeches by G.W.Bush (Self proclaimed Christian) and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (self proclaimed Muslim) and you will see, hear and feel the difference between a Muslim and all other religions. Keep in mind that both represent Millions of followers of each specific faith.

However, to date I believe the actions of G W Bush have resulted in many more deaths than those of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Just saying.

Originally Posted by cologal;***624

However, to date I believe the actions of G W Bush have resulted in many more deaths than those of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Just saying.

Cheap shot as you suggest that President Bush acted unilaterally and without Congressional approval. I recall majorites in both parties "acting" in support of the President. With the tension and threats created by Ahmadinejad and Iran in the Straits of Hormuz, his threatening rhetoric directed at Israel and his pursuit of nuclear weapons why are you an apologist for him? By giving him a twisted moral superiority to President Bush it seems that way.

Just saying.

Originally Posted by cologal;***624

However, to date I believe the actions of G W Bush have resulted in many more deaths than those of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Just saying.

Can you give a link to prove or disprove that statement? Iran is one of the main supporters of world terrorism so that statement might not hold much water. Perhaps Ahmadinejad personally has not killed many but his state supported terrorism most likely is responsible for more deaths that Bush. Also you might want to add in the ones that are caused by the current Administration and see who has the greatest total, The Big "O", "W" or the wonderful "A" who wants to stone to death a woman for commiting adultry while the man walks proudly away.

Wow!!!

"However, to date I believe the actions of G W Bush have resulted in many more deaths than those of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad."

The statement reflects a need to Bushbash. Almadinanutjob as a character reference....OH MY GOD

btk

Thank GOD there are only a few misguided folks on this thread. I would bet they were in the airport shouting baby killer when I came back from Viet Nam.

Some folks dropped too many tabs of acid during the 60's to focus correctly today.

Thank GOD I am a Christian and at least 51% Conservative.

Originally Posted by The Villager II;***690

Thank GOD there are only a few misguided folks on this thread. I would bet they were in the airport shouting baby killer when I came back from Viet Nam.

Some folks dropped too many tabs of acid during the 60's to focus correctly today.

Thank GOD I am a Christian and at least 51% Conservative.

I was drug free in the 60's and still and that comment was a cheap shot. Never protested the war but did help to read the names of the dead. So you conservatives once again lump anyone who doesnt agree with into the same liberal commie loving box.

One of my nephews flew combat missions during that conflict....

Originally Posted by cabo35;***647

Cheap shot as you suggest that President Bush acted unilaterally and without Congressional approval. I recall majorites in both parties "acting" in support of the President. With the tension and threats created by Ahmadinejad and Iran in the Straits of Hormuz, his threatening rhetoric directed at Israel and his pursuit of nuclear weapons why are you an apologist for him? By giving him a twisted moral superiority to President Bush it seems that way.

Just saying.

The problem here really is the statement to which I replied. We were asked to compare the speeches of both men to see which one was evil. All I did was to compare their actions as they speak louder than words.

There was no other intent or message in the post.

Katz & Bucco:

Be very careful here. Do you realize what you're sounding like?

You're saying that it doesn't matter WHAT a Muslim says, that he or she is dedicated to violence. Their words do no matter - nor do their individual actions - yuou just KNOW that they're a threat to this country. After all, it's in the Koran, if I read your justification properly.

Well, read the Bible for crying out loud. It's FULL of wars, hatred, misogyny and genocide.

Based on your attitudes towards Muslims - as in you just *know* what they're thinking, why should I believe anything from a Christian? After all, from the Crusades to Northern Ireland, there's a history of mass murder. Heck, the Christian brigades in Uganda are using torture and targetting civilians to get THEIR way.. Oh - but they're not REAL Christians, right? They're interpreting the Bible in THEIR way to justify THEIR actions, yes?

...and, again, quoting Mahmoud ImANutJob makes my point even stronger - he's NOT an AMERICAN MUSLIM - and that's the difference I've been trying to point out.

Note that we didn't have any problems with Muslims before 9/11. Even when the WTC was bombed the first time, people largely looked at the perps as a radical offshoot. The 9/11 killers WERE moles here, that much is true, but a posthumous background check shows where they came from and where they studied. They were foreigners who came here on a mission. Most Muslims in this country are not on that mission.

Do you know who Andrew Kehoe is? He is the person who perpetrated the worst suicide bombing in U.S. history. On May 18, 1927 he killed his wife and set his farm buildings on fire. As firefighters responded to that blaze, he detonated dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol that he'd planted inside the Bath (Michigan) Consolidated School over the course of months. When the rescuers started showing up at the school, Kehoe drove up and detonated a bomb in his vehicle. In the aftermath, rescuers discovered 500 pounds of dynamite and pyrotol in the basement of the school's south wing that did NOT detonate.

The death toll was 45 (not including Kehoe) of which 38 were elementary school students.

He was Catholic.

Do you believe Catholics should be judged by his example? Do you believe that all Irish are secret members of the IRA terrorist organization? Do you believe that all Catholic priests are secret rapists? Of course not.

You're so willing to let members of other religions 'off the hook' for the actions of their madmen. Violence abounds in the Bible and, yet, that's ok. But if the person is Muslim, there's no such quarter given.

Go up to Minnesota Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison, the first Muslim congressman, and tell HIM that he's an advocate of violence - and HAS to be, because he's a Muslim.

Originally Posted by billethkid;***685

Wow!!!

"However, to date I believe the actions of G W Bush have resulted in many more deaths than those of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad."

The statement reflects a need to Bushbash. Almadinanutjob as a character reference....OH MY GOD

btk

No Bushbashing.....