Originally Posted by Tbugs

DPlong,

Unfortunate about what happened to your mother-in-law, but there was no proof that the accident was caused by an undocumented alien. It was a stolen car. Your story was sad but had NOTHING to do with undocumented aliens. The police said it had the earmarkings but had no proof. How about just a plain old car theft?

Richie,
You can roll on the floor laughing. You know "illegal" is a hot button word.

Cologal,

You did not mention what would happen to the crops or to the slaughter houses without undocumented workers? You just blamed the loss of higher paying jobs on unions and corporate profits.

Bluedog,

You just call them criminals and that is that. Don't give them jobs. They will go home and documented workers will come in their place. Sorry, guy, that is a dream world. We have to stick with reality.

Dale,

Sounds like you have it correct. The Tea Party is putting on their black armbands and demanding "papers, please."

Wow, everyone answered - and I have not had my coffee yet. Have a great day in The Villages. Watch out for those undocumented workers and call the Tea Party if you see someone offering to trim your palm trees if they look Hispanic.

Tbugs.... I certainly did not blame the unions. Your stated position is that American workers don't want these jobs. You are, most likely, correct about the agriculture jobs. But the meat packing jobs were middle class jobs when they were union jobs. Now they are not.

When I started this job 21 years ago I was required to produce my birth certificate as well as my Social Security card before I was hired. These corporations know that SS numbers and cards are being sold to multiple people. All they have to do is check the number for the actual name listed on file. BUT THEY DON'T Then they say well he/she had a SS number. Its a joke. I will have to check but isn't using a false SS number a crime? If so then the perp would be breaking the law AKA illegal!

I agree with the AZ law recently upheld by the Supreme Court. If the employer fails to adequately check the id of an employee then they are at fault. End of story.

If I had to pass complete background check for my job 21 years ago why doesn't this apply now? Its the LAW!!!!

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Richie,You can roll on the floor laughing. You know "illegal" is a hot button word.

Illegal is a "hot button word", you say. It is also the word that aptly describes the status of your "undocumented" person. Are you a "no borders" advocate?
I don't think you can answer "no" to that question, with your opinion.

Well, time for another group answer, I guess.

Cologal, I apologize for stating you mentioned unions in a negative way. It is the big corporations you are blaming. Once again, if the corporations were willing to pay much higher wages, your consumer price would be much higher. Would you be willing to pay $18 per pound for ground beef or $17 per pound for chicken?

Richie and ceejay, with the stroke of a pen, an illegal immigrant could be an undocumented worker. Look at the way marijuana possesion has been decriminalized. Reefer madness has not overtaken the country. Just decriminalize not having "papers". These people have not hurt you. Be compassionate. I know that is not the Tea Party way, but try it anyway. You might like it.

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Well, time for another group answer, I guess.

Cologal, I apologize for stating you mentioned unions in a negative way. It is the big corporations you are blaming. Once again, if the corporations were willing to pay much higher wages, your consumer price would be much higher. Would you be willing to pay $18 per pound for ground beef or $17 per pound for chicken?

Richie and ceejay, with the stroke of a pen, an illegal immigrant could be an undocumented worker. Look at the way marijuana possesion has been decriminalized. Reefer madness has not overtaken the country. Just decriminalize not having "papers". These people have not hurt you. Be compassionate. I know that is not the Tea Party way, but try it anyway. You might like it.

I'm compassionate for lawbreakers that aren't violent and by that I mean that I don't encourage violence against them.

But if the laws are broken, justice must be served. That may mean jail time and deportation, or just deportation depending on if the lawbreaker is a repeat offender. Compassionately, we can dust 'em off and show them the exit door.

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Well, time for another group answer, I guess.

Cologal, I apologize for stating you mentioned unions in a negative way. It is the big corporations you are blaming. Once again, if the corporations were willing to pay much higher wages, your consumer price would be much higher. Would you be willing to pay $18 per pound for ground beef or $17 per pound for chicken?

Richie and ceejay, with the stroke of a pen, an illegal immigrant could be an undocumented worker. Look at the way marijuana possession has been decriminalized. Reefer madness has not overtaken the country. Just decriminalize not having "papers". These people have not hurt you. Be compassionate. I know that is not the Tea Party way, but try it anyway. You might like it.

Actually I stand for the AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS worker!!!! This race to the bottom in the name of cheaper consumer costs is ridiculous. This country was built on a strong middle class, in the name of the "Global Economy" jobs have been shipped overseas, unions busted and wages stagnated.

Lower prices are less useful if you don't have a job!!! What ever happened to a rising tide floats all boats! Seems like we have returned the robber baron era.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

...it might be a good idea to make it a crime. Actually, I'd say that hiring or employing illegals should be the crime with the greatest penalty. But that isn't anything that could work if done immediately. If our feckless Congress suddenly passed such a bill, there wouldn't be enough Immigration officers to chase the millions of illegals already here, not enough jail cells to house them all, or not enough airplanes to fly them all back home.

And I won't mention what would happen to segments of our economy and sections of the country that would suffer terrific hits. No people to pick the crops, to work in hot kitchens, work in home construction (particularly in right-to-work states like Florida), do landscaping and lawn maintenance, etc., etc.

Now don't tell me that these people are displacing unemployed Americans. Americans simply won't work that hard for the amount they are paid. (I just had a major landscaping job done and eight Mexican workers got more done in a day and a half than any other group I had ever seen. Before that I had pavers put on a driveway by six Brazilian workers. Not a word of English among them and they worked for the better part of a day bent over, lifting heavy stones and mixing concrete. Older American workers couldn't do that physical work. Younger ones simply wouldn't work that hard.)

But if illegal immigration was made a crime over a period of time, over 5-6-7 years, so employers could prepare for an alternative work force and the illegals could prepare to go home....now that might work.

VK Actually it has been argued that many of the jobs being taken by illegals would be taken by Americans except that both illegal and thier employers have placed downward pressure on wages. Thus if emploers were not allowed to hire illegals the wage scale would rise. Now this does create another set of problems. Employers hire illegals because they don't have to contend as much with working conditions, etc. Just look at what happened in Iowa.

The two largest increase in population have been Hispanic and Asian. Guess which group came here legally? Guess which group have within their group is primarily Mexican. Do they all pay taxes? do they all gain benefit of schools, social services, etc.

some Americans seem to believe that they are taking the high road with support of illegal immigration. Us low brows want these folks to come here in the same manner has our fore-fathers and those folks who now desire to enter legally. finally how do we remain a country "united" if too many of us are sneaking across the border.

There is only one reason why we can't bring illegal immgration under control. Its call the will to do so...but then that might mean that as a pol someone would get mad at me and would vote for me....OMG!

Originally Posted by rubicon

VK Actually it has been argued that many of the jobs being taken by illegals would be taken by Americans except that both illegal and thier employers have placed downward pressure on wages. Thus if emploers were not allowed to hire illegals the wage scale would rise. Now this does create another set of problems. Employers hire illegals because they don't have to contend as much with working conditions, etc. Just look at what happened in Iowa.

The two largest increase in population have been Hispanic and Asian. Guess which group came here legally? Guess which group have within their group is primarily Mexican. Do they all pay taxes? do they all gain benefit of schools, social services, etc.

some Americans seem to believe that they are taking the high road with support of illegal immigration. Us low brows want these folks to come here in the same manner has our fore-fathers and those folks who now desire to enter legally. finally how do we remain a country "united" if too many of us are sneaking across the border.

There is only one reason why we can't bring illegal immgration under control. Its call the will to do so...but then that might mean that as a pol someone would get mad at me and would vote for me....OMG!

Well said!!!!

VK,

Please stop the nonsense about illegals doing the work US citizens will not do. I too, have had pavers installed, landscape upgraded and a regular lawn care service since I have been in Florida - over 30 years now. At no time did I use criminals do do the work. I used American citizens. Have I paid a little more? Probably, but I have recognized the value of not stealing food from the tables of American citizens so I can have a little more for myself.

I grew up in Missouri and knew men who work in the meat packing plants. These were men making an honest living who could support a family.

Colagal is right - all the jobs described were done by US citizens and could be again, if only we were not so selfish. I cannot force the hotels to hire only US citizens as maids, but I can make certain that the people who do work for me will be US citizens. All of us could do that if not for our greed.

The additional costs imposed on this society by the illegal activities of these criminals (drugs, street gangs, prison population overflow, etc) costs much more than than any short term financial benefit we might receive.

Congresswoman Wasserman Shultz is someone conservatives ignore at their own peril. This lady is tough, tenacious and very intelligent. She is Jewish, something she does not try to hide - she is in fact a very active and open member of the American Jewish community.

Her presence and activities contribute significantly to keeping the Jewish vote and contributions solidly Democratic. Her influence will continue to contribute to keeping President Obama supporting Israel in at least some degree.

This thread has gone all over the place, but I think it's time for Republicans to recognize that this is a brilliant pick for the DNC.

Originally Posted by BBQMan

VK,
Have I paid a little more? Probably, but I have recognized the value of not stealing food from the tables of American citizens so I can have a little more for myself.

Well, you just disqualified yourself from ever becoming a CEO - your shareholders would barbecue you.

But, just to make myself clear - my hat's off to you. (And I do the same - I look for a bargain for the work around my house - but a LEGAL bargain - my neighbor is a general contractor and gives me good rates because the commute is so easy!)