STEVEZ...
GREAT post....USN(ret)

Thanx for nailing it so sucinctly SteveZ.

I applaud fact based experience VS 21st opinions.

BTK :bigthumbsup:

STEVEZ for President - 2008!

Nice post SteveZ. Perhaps the candidates don't lay out a detailed plan for curing the war, simply because conditions seem to change daily. They may want to wait until they are actually in office, consult with all the pertinent experts, etc. before they lay out a strategy, based on what conditions are at that point in time. As you're well aware, lot could happen between then and now.

While a lot can happen between now and then, a lot more stays the same.

If the candidate's campaign is based on selling the "I have a plan" concept, but the candidate can't prepare it until post-inauguration, then the candidate is selling smoke. There's a lot of "experts" out there who can provide succinct advice on the situation there to include trend analyses and tactical/strategic forecasts - the think tanks abound with them. And nothing changes that dramatically anyway - the demographics remain a constant, the geography doesn't move, the issues-at-conflict rarely stray, and the goals of the factions are relatively simple (albeit difficult to attain). All situations have a diplomatic approach and a militaristic (usually ending with a follow-up diplomatic) approach, depending if the former is successful or not. The old "five paragraph Operations Plan" format covering all facets of an activity is universal, and the person who says "I have a plan" but can't produce it in this format is snowing everyone except those who just don't want to recognize the obvious for whatever reason(s).

Anyone can claim to have a plan, and anyone can claim to be smart enough to make one. I just have a hard time swallowing the story that any candidate becomes a genius after saying "I do solemnly swear..." and only then comes to bat with the 'plan.' After the election, the first concern is always to repay the campaign favors and get the appointments in place - that takes a few months on its own. By then, the American memory (the President's and the electorate's) seems to dramatically fade as to what was promised and what will be delivered. As I go through the list of presidents since I became aware there was such a person, they all have followed this pattern.

Campaigns should not be a tease. If the candidate has an idea on how to do something, whatever it is, then say it now, not lead the public on with a rhetorical fan dance. If the candidate has substance - show it! The candidate that doesn't is simply another snake-oil salesperson whose second job should be selling band uniforms in River City. If the candidate is afraid that putting forward a plan is giving up his/her sales strategy for winning an election, then they are demonstrating self concern and public disdain.

Steve Z,
Some great posts!

There have been some really thoughtful responses. I don't necessarily agree with each and every one, but they have all been worthy of some thought.

Personally, I have some pretty solidified thoughts on issues such as immigration, energy dependence, government spending, campaign finance, education, health care and education. It'll be pretty easy to choose a candidate (for President, at least) who agrees with me on most of those issues.

Where I'm a little less certain is on the issue of what to do about Iraq and the Middle East. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that us hanging around Iraq for 1 or 10 or 100 years is going to result in a region that is stable politically, economically and religiously. There will be a civil or religious war when we leave and that will happen whenever we leave. In fact, there may be more than one war. It could be the Shiá against the Sunni's, or the Turks against the Kurds, the Iranians and Iraqi Shiá against everyone else, or some combination of the above against Israel. If we could afford to stay there and were willing as a country to pay the price in blood and treasure, we'd have an outside chance of at least keeping the potentially warring factions apart. But we can't afford the cost to stay and we aren't willing to sacrifice more thousands of young Americans for that purpose. As a nation we want to "win and go home" and that's simply not going to happen.

What will happen if we leave? Will the various factions war with one another? Sure. Do I care? Not really. They've been killing one another off for centuries. The region has the economic development at the same level that the U.S. had when the Pilgrims were here. Militarily, they're not much better off. Without the weapons and materials we brought there, they'd still be warring with WWI guns, shooting from horseback. About all they have that we need is oil, and that's pretty concentrated in only a couple of countries in the region. I'm convinced that if we'd get off our butts as a country, we could reduce that dependence on foreign oil very, very quickly.

Do we need to keep watching what China, India and Russia do with regard to the Middle East? We sure do. But as long as we're fully tangled up in the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have very little ability to address those emerging world powers as we should.

Am I worried that al Quaeda will create training bases in Iraq if we leave? I wouldn't be any more worried if our soldiers were there or if they weren't. I'm convinced that al Quaeda IS training terrorists in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and even Pakistan. I'm equally convinced that us keeping 150,000 young men and women over there isn't slowing al Quaeda down very much. I might even argue that if the Arabs were busy killing one another, they'd be less inclined or interested in sending terrorists over here to kill us.

Keeping our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan as an occupying army is having the effect of creating a whole generation of blood enemies willing to commit jihad against America. (Please, no one try to convince me that we're really not an occupying army.) When one considers that in 20 years or so both France and Italy will be majority Muslim, and England will have a meaningful Muslim population as well, the prospect of a generation of highly-motivated jihadists who will have metasticized throughout Europe as well as the Middle East becomes more worrisome. The things that are motivating such hatred must be removed. And that's us keeping our soldiers in the Middle East.

Do I believe that getting out of Iraq will cause us to be at greater risk of terrorist attack than if we stay? I'd have to conclude, NO. I think the greater risk is that our political and military actions will foment the hatred of a worldwide generation of Muslims and that WILL increase the risk of terrorism here at home.

I guess that just writing this is beginning to help me choose which candidates will be more likely to address the issues that I think are important in a way that I think might work.

Do I expect all of you to agree with me? No. Will I be upset if you don't agree? Not at all. Each of us has to go thru the process of thinking thru the issues, the possible solutions and which people seeking our political support might best resolve those issues. What's really scary is that none of us is likely to know what the best course of action will be. It'll be our children and grandchildren who will deal with the outcome of actions taken during this generation. My guess would be that if there's another Tom Brokaw in high school somewhere in the U.S. who might write a book about our times in a few decades, chances are we won't be collectively viewed as a very great generation.

I'm glad you started it, too....

Agreement on any/all/most/none of the issues isn't anywhere near as necessary as having thought-provoking dialogue in a civil and open-minded manner. All too often the dialogue breaks down into snide remarks and name-calling - none of which succeed except to alienate.

I haven't met the all-knowing person yet (and it sure isn't the guy I see in the mirror!), so the opinions of others - developed through years of experienced which don't match mine - help me learn more. The more I learn, the better I understand (I hope!).

Hope there's more to come...

I know why you are the Kahuna. Great piece of work, breaking down the current political/military situation we find ourselves in. It was thoughtful, well researched and written so that even I could understand.

I too worry about my children and grandchildren, and what their future may hold because of the decisions made over the past few years.

Thankyou and keep up the excellent writing.

I am listening and learning and appreciate the dialogue. I am usually not politically vocal, but I hope to make the right choice in the coming election. Although, I do not feel that this election will change much in our world, my only hope is that we vote for the best qualified person that has ANSWERS to our many concerns that we all have. I want to hear what changes they will make, not just a gimicky slogan. I also fear for all our grandchildrens future AND the world's future. I pray to my kind, loving God for a miracle, a miracle so desperately needed, that we find the answers for world peace, respect by all for all living things, human caring and understanding, kindness, unselfishness, cival liberties, freedom, global education, health care for all, not just the priviledged, and universal love of our precious delicate earth before the world is destroyed by greed, hate, disrespect, crime, extremists, terrorists, racism, animal extinction, global warming, overfishing, deforestation, pollution, starvation, disease, wars, etc...etc.....etc....I really appreciate the educated opinions here and look forward to reading all of the posts. Sorry for the rambling.

Watch this and ask, who if anyone, has the guts to change the things that must be changed before we hang out the bankruptcy sign in D.C..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

Hancle704...great clip.
I am usually chiding the group about waking the silent majority. When I see something like this...David Walker the nation's top accountant...Controller General of the USA...working to get some one to listen...no to do something and he is being shushed into a corner....then what are the mere mortals like us to do????

I think your clip should be a separate thread. There are so many things out there today that are imminent risks to the futures of our children/grandchildren/great grand children....sooner or later we will need to pay attention to the future.

No wonder there are so many movies these days that show the future as some waste land far worse off than the early settlers of this great country.

What does it take?

BTK

I think we should send this clip to everyone we know and ask them to send it on. We should also be bombarding our congress with complaints, letting them know that we know
how badly they have screwed up..and I'm guessing it was all for political gain. It seems our national treasury is there for the rape and pillage by a select number of citizens.
We can scream all day about throwing incumbents out of office, but I want to keep my incumbent and have you throw yours out. This is so wrong. Any pol that is not fiscally conservative should be forced out. I am not endorsing killing all social programs, but I am tired of giving to a world that would rather see us dead, and funding stupid pork barrel projects.

Thanks- President Bush--
He didn't even mention how much we are spending on the war.
I read an article on CNN.com called "Surge or splurge in Iraq" that said we are paying billions of dollars to the insurgents or our enemy to make it look like the Surge is working. Paying for no violence...as soon as we stop paying---back to the same fighting. If you can find that article-read it. It is scary. I wish I knew how to put the web site on here. What you don't know...(our media doesn't cover the cost of this war) in terms of what it has done to this country.

Surge or Splurge - here's the link to the article. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/19/pentagon.surge/

How can people be so stupid to think a policy like this will work.