Originally Posted by DaleMN

I served my country by protesting the war in Viet Nam....does that count?

What else did you do that was good for the country?

Originally Posted by buggyone

A simple question: If you feel so strongly about the military, why did you wait until you were drafted? Why didn't you enlist (and stay in for your 20 years?) Just a simple question.

I did enlist, I did stay in for 20 years. Is that good enough for you? Freedom comes with a cost, but I guess that you are not willing to pay your fair share of the cost.

While all are entitled to their opinion, if one was not in the military...drafted, volunteered or otherwise...one cannot really tag the participation as slavery or what ever other negative signatory is assigned.

I do know for sure those of us in the military, regardless how inducted, did not feel forced to do anything. Yes it is a view of a minority for a plethora of reasons, but please don't dishonor those involved with your prejudiced terminology.

As far as the discussion regarding Viet Nam and "a war we could not win"....just what is any different in the current wars we are involved in? Ten years in Afghanistan? Too many years in Iraq? Does anybody believe these are wars we could win? Whether Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, if left to the military to win they would do so. Since the agendas of these wars are political, there will never be any such event as a military winning allowed. The opposing military forces know this as well, hence they can take forever refining the methods used to on a regular basis to pick off the lives of our troops.

What I find amusing is the rhetoric that tends to be dispensed by some in the name of those who oppose or opposed the draft, that it is some negative intent like involuntary servitude or what ever else makes them feel better about their position.

There have been no presidents since Truman who are willing to give the order to do or use what ever it takes to win a given war.

Of the billions who inhabit this planet, wars are games to be fought by the political rules of a very few of the top governing politicians in each country involved. The boots on the ground are a resource for them to manipulate.

Anytime the word would be given to the American military to win, that war would be over in a very short time. I firmly believe in not getting into any conflict we are NOT prepared to WIN!

btk

Just to clear up a couple of points. Conscription is involuntary servetude, by defination. Neither you or I can change that. Now having said that, I admire those who have voluntered to serve in the military. That is their free choice and we should admire that.
Now about the avater and signiture. I have changed them back to solely honor the television series, "The Prisoner". The first time I came to The Villages, the similarity struck me. I tried to blend the Simpsons there, for some humor, but this works fine.
"Be seeing you."

There have been many governments that controlled the people in history. People were not free. You could say that they were in a involuntary servitude.
I see no harm in serving your country to help maintain the freedom that many of our ancestors gave their life and limbs for.

It is interesting how creative people can become when they want to avoid their moral and social obligations . I just wonder if they ever run out of excuses?

Originally Posted by rubicon

It is interesting how creative people can become when they want to avoid their moral and social obligations . I just wonder if they ever run out of excuses?

You have to remember that many did not want to fight for their freedom from England. Apparently the milquetoast DNA has carried throughout the centuries.

Originally Posted by rubicon

It is interesting how creative people can become when they want to avoid their moral and social obligations . I just wonder if they ever run out of excuses?

Let me try this one more time. The vast, vast majority of citizens who hold the libertarian prinicpal that conscription is immoral, would and did serve their country. For those who believe that this is an easy way to avoid service, well what can I say. Ron Paul, for instance, served in the Air Force during the Viet Nam war. I would not question his patriotism. Don't question mine.
Be seeing you.

Originally Posted by Number 6

Let me try this one more time. The vast, vast majority of citizens who hold the libertarian prinicpal that conscription is immoral, would and did serve their country. For those who believe that this is an easy way to avoid service, well what can I say. Ron Paul, for instance, served in the Air Force during the Viet Nam war. I would not question his patriotism. Don't question mine.
Be seeing you.

So you don't think some would join the ranks of libertarian solely because of the draft-dodging principal?

Originally Posted by villagegolfer

So you don't think some would join the ranks of libertarian solely because of the draft-dodging principal?

Sure, but I also suspect there are a lot of "chicken hawks" or "sunshine patriots" who talk a good game about patriotism, and run when they are most needed.

Originally Posted by Number 6

Sure, but I also suspect there are a lot of "chicken hawks" or "sunshine patriots" who talk a good game about patriotism, and run when they are most needed.

I seen my share in the late 60's and early 70's. Some came back from Canada and some stayed.

Did you know that many guys from the Revolutionary War ran to Canada when the action started. Apparently the millquetoast DNA goes back hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by Number 6

Let me try this one more time. The vast, vast majority of citizens who hold the libertarian prinicpal that conscription is immoral, would and did serve their country. For those who believe that this is an easy way to avoid service, well what can I say. Ron Paul, for instance, served in the Air Force during the Viet Nam war. I would not question his patriotism. Don't question mine.
Be seeing you.

Did you serve? I did and I freely joined.

Figmo, I know you did enlist and did serve 20 years in the Army. I was not addressing you when I asked why a certain someone had to wait until he was drafted and now talks so patriotic.

I, also, enlisted in the Army, Figmo. I did not stay for 20 years. I stayed for 3 years and then worked at the Veterans Administration for 36 years helping veterans. I think that counts for something, don't you?

Originally Posted by buggyone

Figmo, I know you did enlist and did serve 20 years in the Army. I was not addressing you when I asked why a certain someone had to wait until he was drafted and now talks so patriotic.

I, also, enlisted in the Army, Figmo. I did not stay for 20 years. I stayed for 3 years and then worked at the Veterans Administration for 36 years helping veterans. I think that counts for something, don't you?

Being smug is very unbecoming. Yes, I was drafted and I did not run to Canada.

Yes, I was in one of the most Gung-Ho units in VietNam. I was patriotic before I was drafted. I waited to get drafted before I enlisted because I had a paternal obligation that I had to see through. I'll match my military record with you any day.

I too was drafted. I was married and in college. I chose to NOT pursue a military career, however when called, I did my duty as well as the next guy RA or other.
There was always a "friendly" jousting between RA's and those who were drafted. There was NEVER ANY QUESTION ABOUT ONE'S PATRIOTISM BASED ON WHETHER THEY ENLISTED OR NOT.

That kind of snipping just did not happen.

It is a below the belt comment/allegation an just not called for!!!!!

btk