Originally Posted by villagegolfer

Yea, well would you turn your back on a friend and have them killed by communists. Easy to stand back and criticize if you never had to help friends defend their freedom. The liberal cowards have blood on their hands and no amount of rationalizing will wash the stain from their ignorant ideals.

We may not agree on this but that is no reason for name calling.

The domino effect was a theory....

I did NOT protest the war in Vietnam but I did support getting out. I missed out on going to the University of Colorado because of the war. My parents were afraid to send me there due to all the protests. So they shipped me off to a Catholic college in Dodge City, KS.

Not all Democrats are liberal, as you just pointed out to me in another thread....

And Thank You for your service.....

Originally Posted by cologal

We may not agree on this but that is no reason for name calling.

The domino effect was a theory....

I did NOT protest the war in Vietnam but I did support getting out. I missed out on going to the University of Colorado because of the war. My parents were afraid to send me there due to all the protests. So they shipped me off to a Catholic college in Dodge City, KS.

Not all Democrats are liberal, as you just pointed out to me in another thread....

And Thank You for your service.....

Well, I was called names when I came home but your right, it is kind of late for a tit for tat.

And thank you for thanking me.

As has been reported in the news over the years there are many many honorable men and women serving. However due to recruiting goals standards continually were lower to meet those goals. As a result the military is experiencing higher crime ratres, including rapes. We now see that the military has waived the "don't ask don't tell which I believe has opened a pandora's box. I volunteered and served proudly for four years.

I have alwyas believed that the draft is an essential tool for our defense for all those reasons cited by others in previous posts. The day will arrive when we won't be able to afford a volunteer military. Keep in mind one of the main reasons Rome fell was because their armies at the end were mostly mercenaries and they fought for whoever paid them more.

I have written senators for many years about bring back the draft. It is essential they we do. For those who want to hide in Candada along with the draft make it a law that if they flee they can't come back

Originally Posted by rubicon

As has been reported in the news over the years there are many many honorable men and women serving. However due to recruiting goals standards continually were lower to meet those goals. As a result the military is experiencing higher crime ratres, including rapes. We now see that the military has waived the "don't ask don't tell which I believe has opened a pandora's box. I volunteered and served proudly for four years.

I have alwyas believed that the draft is an essential tool for our defense for all those reasons cited by others in previous posts. The day will arrive when we won't be able to afford a volunteer military. Keep in mind one of the main reasons Rome fell was because their armies at the end were mostly mercenaries and they fought for whoever paid them more.

I have written senators for many years about bring back the draft. It is essential they we do. For those who want to hide in Candada along with the draft make it a law that if they flee they can't come back

I agree with you 100%. Ask the idiots who were captured on the Iranian border and imprisoned how they feel being back in the good old USA. The draft should be re-instituted and the old deferments eliminated. Everybody in this country should serve in one capacity or another.

This is a great country because people in the past sacrificed their life or their time to make it free. Believe it or not but back in the 1700's their were liberals and cowards that did not contribute to our freedom and I guess their DNA is still here and accounted for.

In May of 1777 Thomas Jefferson wrote the following to John Adams-

Our battalions for the continental service were some time ago so far filled as rendered the recommendation of a draught from the militia hardly requisite, and the more so as in this country it ever was the most unpopular and impracticable thing that could be attempted. Our people, even under the monarchical government, had learnt to consider it as the last of all oppressions.

"The last of all opressions". I like that and would be proud to have that kind of DNA!

There may be good reasons for instituting the draft, but forced patriotism isn't one of them.

In WWI and WWII we had no trouble getting people to enlist. Heck, after Pearl Harbor, there were LINES outside recruiting offices.

The idea of forcing people into servitude and claim some higher moral pf "teaching patriotism" just strikes me as un-American. It's akin to (but NOT equal to) the kind of propaganda you see in totalitarian states.

True patriotism comes from within - you don't impose it externally. Nobody forced me to love my country. Nobody demanded it of me. I have my feelings for this country purely from my own experiences. I can't tell you how I felt when I finally got my passport after 20 years of trying, to give you one example.

As I said, there may be other good reasons for a draft, but please don't use that reason.

Right! Haven't we come to the realization that involuntary servitude is immoral?

Originally Posted by Number 6

In May of 1777 Thomas Jefferson wrote the following to John Adams-



"The last of all opressions". I like that and would be proud to have that kind of DNA!

It is indeed a more complex world now than then .Our troops are hardly treated as servants. Is two years of service to your country too much of a sacriface for the preservation of our democracy?

Originally Posted by rubicon

It is indeed a more complex world now than then .Our troops are hardly treated as servants. Is two years of service to your country too much of a sacriface for the preservation of our democracy?

It is not a question of sacriface, it is a question of morality. Involuntary servitute is just wrong. Jefferson knew it, and that type of morality does not change over time.

In all due respect that is like saying "its not about the money"

Originally Posted by rubicon

It is indeed a more complex world now than then .Our troops are hardly treated as servants. Is two years of service to your country too much of a sacriface for the preservation of our democracy?

You are absolutely right. Since our school system does not teach the children social responsibility a draft should be mandatory. As for the cowards, give them some sort of social duty.

Originally Posted by villagegolfer

You are absolutely right. Since our school system does not teach the children social responsibility a draft should be mandatory. As for the cowards, give them some sort of social duty.

I find it very offensive to label everyone who opposes involuntary servitude as a coward. Many, like me, have a well grounded belief that conscription is immoral. That belief is shared with Americans from Jefferson to Ron Paul.

Originally Posted by Number 6

I find it very offensive to label everyone who opposes involuntary servitude as a coward. Many, like me, have a well grounded belief that conscription is immoral. That belief is shared with Americans from Jefferson to Ron Paul.

I respect your point of view, and understand your desire to be your own man. I too have a deep commitment to my independence. However you continually use the quote "I am not number, "I am a free man" D oh. I know you realize that being a free man isn't something that's come to you of an accidental nature but because those so called immoral servitudes recognized that freedom requires cost and sacrifice.

So it logically follows that those who have abided by their military obligation would not exactly be enamored with those who push such views. Paul like Jefferson are known to have recalcitrant natures

I think about what you have said and then think back to my cousin Tom who served 4 years in the Air Force and then volunteered two tours of duty in Nam
all because he loved his country....God rest his moral and free soul.

Once again I sincerely respect your point of view and would defend your right to express it.

Originally Posted by Number 6

I find it very offensive to label everyone who opposes involuntary servitude as a coward. Many, like me, have a well grounded belief that conscription is immoral. That belief is shared with Americans from Jefferson to Ron Paul.

Sorry to offend you but I still hold my ground firmly. It took thousands of brave souls to make this country free. Why should some gene pools get a free ride?

A simple question: If you feel so strongly about the military, why did you wait until you were drafted? Why didn't you enlist (and stay in for your 20 years?) Just a simple question.