Originally Posted by njbchbum

When is enough - enough? I would never be upset about sharing a little of what I have - but the government has already seen to that so I already do share. How much more must I share? When will the bleeding stop - the bleeding heart liberals and the bleeding of my wallet?

Bleeding!?!?!
Please tone down the drama.
You are not bleeding. If you are wealthy enough, with the new health care regulations you might suffer a paper cut.

A lot of questions asked but no answers... hum

Originally Posted by Bucco

How is it fair to exempt someone from paying a tax for one reason.....being a union member ?

Someone on here said that there has to be a start......how about actually reforming the health care system, instead of using our congress to pay political IOU's ?(if you dont think this examption was political then you are very naive) How about not CARING what is in the bill just as long as you get a bill....is that the way we want to begin finally on health care ?

Although I am still working and part of the USWA I am 100% against the Union exemptions. I have what would be considered the Cadillac plan.
I am against what Obama is doing. Divide and conquer .

We have absolutely NO idea what each sector is getting to be paid off. I can't imagine how much is being paid off in bribes to get peoples votes.

This whole administration makes me ill.

Vote the BUMS out.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Bleeding!?!?!
Please tone down the drama.
You are not bleeding. If you are wealthy enough, with the new health care regulations you might suffer a paper cut.

Yeah right...a trillion dollar microscopic paper cut in a major recession.

The Cloward-Piven Marxists are sticking to the game plan. Their in the White House and executing the strategy that calls for the bankrupting of our capitalistic economic system and pave the way for a totalitarian government that owns industries, banks and businesses, tells us what to eat and drink, decides who lives and dies based on cost-effectiveness and spreads the wealth. Hmmmm.....sounds eerily familiar. Their agenda will:

raise taxes on businesses and industries that produce jobs,

create more entitlements to facilitate the fall of the economic system while creating unsustainable deficits and debt service

tax investments and dividends for investors who largely fund the expansion of businesses and industries that create jobs. A real job killer,

exempt special interests...like unions from $60 billion in healthcare taxes and assess the rest of the taxpaying suckers to cover their share,

give up billions in kickbacks and bribes to "buy" votes with taxpayer dollars on a plan that every poll says Americans don't want...and than we have to listen to them as if they, the loud minority, have the moral high ground

cut $500 billion from Medicare while looking at the camera and swearing benefits will not be reduced by a nickle,

segregate billions in the "doc fix" so it doesn't look like its adding to the trillion dollar, " microscopic paper cut".

Margaret Thatcher had it right when she said, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

Bucco....close the doors ....the leftists are coming through the windows!

Unfortunately we will never know just how much this fiasco is going to cost us. We will never know how much each person had to be bribed to get their vote. Transparency I believe was their battle cry.

Who does not receive medical care when they need it? Illegal aliens? No. The uninsured? No. People who don't seek it? sometimes.

This bill is not about health care. The uninformed think it is. Liberals know it's not. Most of the American people know it's not.

Time will tell.

Yoda

"This bill is not about health care. The uninformed think it is. Liberals know it's not. Most of the American people know it's not."

Using the above as a given, doesn't it concern those who remain silent the government continues with such a passion on an issue that most Americans are against?

Even a little bit? If not now you soon will be and your family coming behind you will for absolute certainty!!!!!!!!!!

btk

I think it's a general liberal philosophy. They put their faith in government and if it sounds good to them they support it.

Universal health care sounds well meaning so they don't dig much beyond that. If you speak out against it with a few facts then you are deemed an angry selfish person.

Add to to the fact that many liberals really do believe that from each according to his ability, to each according to his need and you have a recipe for disaster which is what we have going on now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njbchbum
When is enough - enough? I would never be upset about sharing a little of what I have - but the government has already seen to that so I already do share. How much more must I share? When will the bleeding stop - the bleeding heart liberals and the bleeding of my wallet?

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Bleeding!?!?!
Please tone down the drama.
You are not bleeding. If you are wealthy enough, with the new health care regulations you might suffer a paper cut.

I wish that I could tone down the drama! But I have to live it every day! The key word in your response is "If"! I can assure you, that IF I were wealthy enough [or as wealthy as you apparently are], IF I didn't have to pay my government tithes, IF I didn't have to pay my religious tithe, IF I didn't have to contribute to the support of sisters, nieces and nephews, great nieces and great nephews, IF my parents were wealthy and left us buckets of $$, IF I had married the rich guy instead of the guy I loved, IF John Beresford Tipton has sent Michael Anthony to my house years ago, If I had listened to my parents and saved 10% of my annual income when I began to work, IF, IF, IF.........that's the story of my life!

Along with the fact that I still wear my old clothes, my old old clothes go to the Salvation Army or the church's clothes closet, household items that are still useable go to Freecycle or my yard sales, I still eat leftovers, I can't tell you the last time I went out to a movie, etc. I live the addage "Waste not, want not." every day!

And to me - your thoughts ijusluvit are a waste!

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Bucco,

You have a point. But it is inevitable that the new health care laws, like every other law passed in the entire history of our nation, will contain provisions that are "unfair". I submit that if exactly what you are referring to comes to pass, it will be a microscopically trivial injustice compared to failing to pass the entire legislative package.

So many of the furious objections and fears about the proposed legislation are about minor points, regulations which will affect either a relatively small percentage of the population, or, if a larger number of people, but to a relatively small degree. Doing everything perfectly or eliminating all of the "unfairness" is impossible in our diverse country. And BTW, just what is "unfair"? Is it unfair that those who earn over $1 million per year may be required to pay taxes that are a few percentage points higher to assist in providing more comprehensive health care to millions of people who cannot get it now unless they are life-threatened?

We cannot be distracted by the special interests who stop at nothing to find "unfairness" anywhere in the proposals, with the single objective of stopping any reform at any cost.

Progress is incremental and, in our country, usually maddeningly slow. This nation must finally come to grips with providing a better health care system. The electorate gave us the rare combination of a Congressional majority and a President who have steadfastly refused to give up on the enormous challenge their predecessors couldn't, or didn't care to conquer. The proposed legislation, regardless of how it is finally tweaked by the conference committee, is an historic, positive first step.

I read this over and over and the only logical conclusion I can arrive at is that you think that is is ok to be unfair, as long as this bill passes !

Sorry.....I dont get that !

Originally Posted by Bucco

I read this over and over and the only logical conclusion I can arrive at is that you think that is is ok to be unfair, as long as this bill passes !

Sorry.....I dont get that !

Bucco I get the same impression that you do. Do whatever you must to get this passed. The end justifies the means.

Originally Posted by Bucco

I read this over and over and the only logical conclusion I can arrive at is that you think that is is ok to be unfair, as long as this bill passes !

Sorry.....I dont get that !

Bucco,

Since you are one of few who don't simply scream their responses and attack the poster, I'll respond briefly. Then after I finish my 18 hour drive to TV and catch my breath, I'll give you six or seven reasons why I take the position.

No one thinks it's "ok to be unfair". But you must have read my statement there is no such thing as an entirely fair legislative act, one of the few things I don't think anyone could disagree with. After careful consideration and some effort to quantify the unfairness of the union member provision you cited, my conclusion was that is trivial by comparison to the fairness that can be achieved by the overall legislation.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Bucco,

Since you are one of few who don't simply scream their responses and attack the poster, I'll respond briefly. Then after I finish my 18 hour drive to TV and catch my breath, I'll give you six or seven reasons why I take the position.

No one thinks it's "ok to be unfair". But you must have read my statement there is no such thing as an entirely fair legislative act, one of the few things I don't think anyone could disagree with. After careful consideration and some effort to quantify the unfairness of the union member provision you cited, my conclusion was that is trivial by comparison to the fairness that can be achieved by the overall legislation.

I respect your opinion, but this is a bill that nobody knows how we will pay for (or uses that famous "approximate")...but thats ok. It exempts certain states for political purpose and you gotta wonder how good this is if being exempt will buy your vote...but thats ok. It is a bill, that you can believe it or not will ADD costs to those who most cannot afford it....but thats ok. It is a bill conceived in deciet..remember all the promise about how we could ALL see on CPAN who was getting what.....but thats ok.

And you know what.....it does NOT address health care ! But all of that is ok !

PS: There are other things that you my think are insignificant or trivial that I just didnt include ! In addition, if I understand the polls the majority of Americans dont want this health care bill passed (Gallup does show 49 but the rest are low 40's or 30's) Now that always elicits the comment...and I can almost see you typing this......those who oppose JUST DONT UNDERSTAND.....but of course we will never be able to as it is all top secret and will be rammed through at first opportunity !

Originally Posted by Bucco

I read this over and over and the only logical conclusion I can arrive at is that you think that is is ok to be unfair, as long as this bill passes !

Sorry.....I dont get that !

Maybe taking from those who have and giving it to those who do not may seem fair to some but it is socialism.

Socialism in the long run leaves everyone in need.

I would like to add to my PS on the last posting I made in this thread if I may.....I said in that PS that anyone who opposes this bill, or this tax, is said to be not able to understand or comprehend the proposals....in others words, trust us, we know what is best...we hear you in all the polls saying you dont want any part of it...but you just dont understand.

I did not see THIS WEEK on ABC yesterday but in reading the transcript this morning, I was struck by these comments from George Will....he was responding to the moderator mentioning the latest poll numbers showing disapproval not only of the President but his policies, especially this health care bill...

"WILL: Well, to his credit, this is a serious president who has decided not to hoard his political capital. To govern is to choose; to choose is to make someone unhappy. And he's made a lot of choices, almost all of them, in my judgment, unfortunate, but he won the election. He gets to do that. So he's been a serious man.

Furthermore, with regard to health care, all this investment in an unpopular bill, there is a strand of liberalism of which I think he is an exemplary that says the fact that it's unpopular demonstrates how important it is to pass it. That is, supervisory liberalism says the American people really don't know what's in their best interests and it's our job to tell them. He's telling them."

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-...9584720&page=4