Originally Posted by rubicon

I have no dog in this hunt. However I am 100% on the side of those who desire to protect the 2nd Amendment because they recognize that this fight is not about placing a ban on certain type of weapons but the beginning of placing a ban on all weapons. The pros and cons will continue concerning gun control but it is only a distraction blocking the real societal problems that create the killing in a movie theatre in colorado or a gangland killing in Chicago. We fall for it evertime because it is easy to exploit because its popular and because after all the jawboning stopsthe media will move on the the next big story and nothing will have been resolved.

If certain weapons were banned I am sure this young man would have developed some sort of bomb or chemical created out of every day products and caused ther same amount of damge. This specious argument over gun control is good for politicians because they have a bone to throw at us voters and at least deflecting real issues

This probably made the tax return issue go away. For now.

Originally Posted by rubicon

I have no dog in this hunt. However I am 100% on the side of those who desire to protect the 2nd Amendment because they recognize that this fight is not about placing a ban on certain type of weapons but the beginning of placing a ban on all weapons. The pros and cons will continue concerning gun control but it is only a distraction blocking the real societal problems that create the killing in a movie theatre in colorado or a gangland killing in Chicago. We fall for it evertime because it is easy to exploit because its popular and because after all the jawboning stopsthe media will move on the the next big story and nothing will have been resolved.

If certain weapons were banned I am sure this young man would have developed some sort of bomb or chemical created out of every day products and caused ther same amount of damge. This specious argument over gun control is good for politicians because they have a bone to throw at us voters and at least deflecting real issues

How would anyone in a legitimate government ban all weapons??? Totalitarian governments can do that because they control every aspect of their subjects' lives. The US has many checks and balances which more often than not work when someone tries to do something that threatens the rights and liberties of many people. The Red Scare was one of these situations in which the voice of irrationality ran roughshod over the checks and balances in place.

I agree that James Holmes-- who was a brilliant science student-- would have made home-made bombs if he could not get access to guns.

Originally Posted by rubicon

I have no dog in this hunt because I do not care to own a gun. However I am 100% on the side of those who desire to protect the 2nd Amendment because they recognize that this fight is not about placing a ban on certain type of weapons but the beginning of placing a ban on all weapons. The pros and cons will continue concerning gun control but it is only a distraction blocking the real societal problems that create the killings in a movie theatre in Colorado or a gangland killings in Chicago. We fall for it everytime because it is easy to exploit because its popular and because after all the jawboning stops the media is able to move on to the next big story leaving once again the real problem to fester once again an to eventually burst.

If certain weapons were banned I am sure this young man would have developed some sort of bomb or chemical created out of every day products and caused the same amount of damage if not more. This specious argument over gun control is good for politicians because they have a bone to throw at us voters and at least deflecting real issues. What about directing funds to help people such as this young man with his special needs? Are you kidding why would a politician work to fund this sort of need when they can build bridges to nowhere that provide more votes.

Good idea. Let's make a case for looking at the CAUSES of violence. We have unprecedented poverty and the largest gap ever between the advantaged and the disadvantaged. More and more of those on the disadvantaged end are turning to crime for a variety of reasons, including desperation. We know we lead the world in the number of prison inmates per capita. The problem always grows in tough economic times but it is growing faster and more deeply now because of the seriousness of the recession. And we are not able to turn things around for three reasons: 1) because of conservative tax policies benefiting those who are already wealthy; 2) because businesses and private individuals are sitting on trillions instead of pumping those funds back into the economy; and 3) because of the Republican stranglehold on funding jobs and other economic stimuli.

Once people are desperate enough to turn to crime, guns just make them more efficient criminals. Banning guns is not the answer. The answer is to return to our roots and our values, making America the land of OPPORTUNITY for all, NOT just for the privileged minority who are lucky enough to inherit or in other ways fall into vast wealth.

Almost all of us retired, mostly comfortable TV folks have NO IDEA of what it's like to go hungry, not be able to pay back a student loan, not have any job prospect, not have any help getting started from ANYWHERE. We grew up in the Land of Opportunity and assume it's still there. It's not. The conservative free capitalists are holding all the resources and have shut down avenues after avenue of opportunity. And, by the way, real opportunity is NOT food stamps and unemployment insurance. Those are mere stop gaps for survival.

We are repeating the history of have and have not societies in sharp decline. Violence always increases as the number of have nots increase. Next comes revolution, and that's when even the privileged with the biggest weapons collections and highest castle walls aren't safe.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Good idea. Let's make a case for looking at the CAUSES of violence. We have unprecedented poverty and the largest gap ever between the advantaged and the disadvantaged. More and more of those on the disadvantaged end are turning to crime for a variety of reasons, including desperation. We know we lead the world in the number of prison inmates per capita. The problem always grows in tough economic times but it is growing faster and more deeply now because of the seriousness of the recession. And we are not able to turn things around for three reasons: 1) because of conservative tax policies benefiting those who are already wealthy; 2) because businesses and private individuals are sitting on trillions instead of pumping those funds back into the economy; and 3) because of the Republican stranglehold on funding jobs and other economic stimuli.

Once people are desperate enough to turn to crime, guns just make them more efficient criminals. Banning guns is not the answer. The answer is to return to our roots and our values, making America the land of OPPORTUNITY for all, NOT just for the privileged minority who are lucky enough to inherit or in other ways fall into vast wealth.

Almost all of us retired, mostly comfortable TV folks have NO IDEA of what it's like to go hungry, not be able to pay back a student loan, not have any job prospect, not have any help getting started from ANYWHERE. We grew up in the Land of Opportunity and assume it's still there. It's not. The conservative free capitalists are holding all the resources and have shut down avenues after avenue of opportunity. And, by the way, real opportunity is NOT food stamps and unemployment insurance. Those are mere stop gaps for survival.

We are repeating the history of have and have not societies in sharp decline. Violence always increases as the number of have nots increase. Next comes revolution, and that's when even the privileged with the biggest weapons collections and highest castle walls aren't safe.

James Holmes is highly intelligent and was a person whose family was of means. If society had programs to deal with his special needs it may have helped. I am not buying the poverty bit. Far too many influential people had humble beginnings. The issues are deeper than what you suggest. Respectively, if I may further mention many of us have to own our share of responsiblity for the failing of societal solutions. Pointing fingers is not productive but as a society we have sat back so long on our laurels that we just blink and deflate and point at one another.

Despite what Team Obama says we are a great nation and we have to begin to act exceptional once again because most of the world expects it and relies on our strength, compassion and support. It is our legacy and our destiny.

tax returns for Romney = Obama's connections to Wright and Jones and other haunts from his past...

apparent non issues that have no bearing on the outcome of one becoming POTUS.

How about a real, here and now issue of significance? One that will affect America and we the people?

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

tax returns for Romney = Obama's connections to Wright and Jones and other haunts from his past...

apparent non issues that have no bearing on the outcome of one becoming POTUS.

How about a real, here and now issue of significance? One that will affect America and we the people?

btk

Romney should say he'll release the tax records when Obama releases his college records and names his drug dealers, and Holder releases all the records pertaining to the Fast and Furious national scandal.

Originally Posted by billethkid

tax returns for Romney = Obama's connections to Wright and Jones and other haunts from his past...

apparent non issues that have no bearing on the outcome of one becoming POTUS.

How about a real, here and now issue of significance? One that will affect America and we the people?

btk

Being a person not locked into any party it is interesting to watch what some folks will say to protect the party line. I'll be watching both candidates closely until Election Day, waggling back and forth, listening to what each said. Hmmmm, I want to see if Mitt has the stones to produce those tax records. Admit he is rich, obtained the American Dream, the hard way. Work. He looks like a buffoon distancing himself from a dancing horse and his tax returns. Just trust him. Right, like Nixon.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Romney should say he'll release the tax records when Obama releases his college records and names his drug dealers, and Holder releases all the records pertaining to the Fast and Furious national scandal.

I would also like to see the Obama records and a public apology for his dope use.

if the masses that voted for Obama in 2007 "trusted" him with what they did not know about him at the time....comparing what we know about Romney VS what was not known about Obama doesn't take a whole lot of analysis or thought.

I much prefer to look at the candidate and his qualifications to make my decision. In 2007 it was very easy to not vote for Obama very simply based on his back ground and complete lack of experience in almost anything related to business or organizational management, accountability or accomplishment. I do not care for pedigreed politicians. I will vote for an outsider any time.

btk

Originally Posted by rubicon

James Holmes is highly intelligent and was a person whose family was of means. If society had programs to deal with his special needs it may have helped. I am not buying the poverty bit. Far too many influential people had humble beginnings. The issues are deeper than what you suggest. Respectively, if I may further mention many of us have to own our share of responsiblity for the failing of societal solutions. Pointing fingers is not productive but as a society we have sat back so long on our laurels that we just blink and deflate and point at one another.

Despite what Team Obama says we are a great nation and we have to begin to act exceptional once again because most of the world expects it and relies on our strength, compassion and support. It is our legacy and our destiny.

You're "not buying the poverty bit"!?! Do you know about the incredible positive correlation between low socio-economic status and gun violence?! Somebody here referred to Chicago as the "murder capital" despite very strict gun laws. Who's dying in Chicago? Southsiders, just like those in every other urban ghetto. But some folks don't see any real problem with this because 'these people are not real contributors to society', etc, etc.

"Too many influential people had humble beginnings." My point exactly. Those opportunities are vanishing. If you don't see the radical difference between opportunities which existed when we were young versus what the situation is today, you are completely out of touch. We TV'rs are NOT typical anymore. Our kids, many of whom had our help to get through school and get a good job, put a down payment on a house and establish some solid roots are NOT typical anymore.

We are no longer a great nation. We are a near, or potentially great nation. You know our rankings in many areas compared to other countries. The 'finger pointing' you refer to is simply a partial explanation of how we have slipped from when we were great. I only cited three very substantial reasons why we have slipped, but the bottom line is that wherever you find a self-centered minority scrambling relatively unchecked to control every segment of wealth and power with no regard for the 'less lucky', you have the formula for that society's demise.

Originally Posted by Posh 08

I would also like to see the Obama records and a public apology for his dope use.

Did Junior Bush ever make public apologies for his cocaine abuse and alcohol abuse for many years? Did Laura Bush make public apologies for being drunk and having a fatal car accident as a teen?

Originally Posted by buggyone

Did Junior Bush ever make public apologies for his cocaine abuse and alcohol abuse for many years? Did Laura Bush make public apologies for being drunk and having a fatal car accident as a teen?

Why would Laura Bush have to apologize to you?

Stories about GW's drug use are just that, stories.

Not nearly the documented and proud drug use of The Amateur.

GW has already and long ago expressed regret for his dependence on alcohol in his past.

It's always about the Bush's with you Obama disciples. Such lunacy.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Did Junior Bush ever make public apologies for his cocaine abuse and alcohol abuse for many years? Did Laura Bush make public apologies for being drunk and having a fatal car accident as a teen?

OK as usual I respect your thoughts but could you back that up with something a little stronger that grocery store check out newspapers? BTW did you read the one about the invaders from Mars kidnapping the folks from a DQ?

Originally Posted by Posh 08

Being a person not locked into any party it is interesting to watch what some folks will say to protect the party line. I'll be watching both candidates closely until Election Day, waggling back and forth, listening to what each said. Hmmmm, I want to see if Mitt has the stones to produce those tax records. Admit he is rich, obtained the American Dream, the hard way. Work. He looks like a buffoon distancing himself from a dancing horse and his tax returns. Just trust him. Right, like Nixon.

Posh, you and I think a lot alike. You must be very intelligent.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Posh, you and I think a lot alike. You must be very intelligent.

I don't know about intelligent. Our old mule wasn't real intelligent, but that old SOB was pretty smart.