Bucco, all the "tips of the icebergs" poke out because the Republicans are notorious for smear campaigns. They just love to not only titillate, but now, with McCain and Bush, they just out and out lie.

As I read and re-read this article, I find it amazing that anyone would find this earth shattering. Obama was fresh out of Law School working for a huge firm. He worked on cases given to him. Lots of research. Guess what? Lawyers are billed for that. Always have been, always will be. I'm trying to see in this exactly what Cabo's point is and somehow it's just not jelling for me.

BTW, being from Chicago, I know that reading the Sun Times is as productive as watching Fox News. Not!

Right you are. There is enough blame to go around. While this crisis had its genesis in the Carter administration, no succeeding administration did anything to correct the problem. The Dems attempt to blame the Bush administration, and by extension, John McClain, is just spin with no substance. It makes me sick.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Bucco, all the "tips of the icebergs" poke out because the Republicans are notorious for smear campaigns. They just love to not only titillate, but now, with McCain and Bush, they just out and out lie.

As I read and re-read this article, I find it amazing that anyone would find this earth shattering. Obama was fresh out of Law School working for a huge firm. He worked on cases given to him. Lots of research. Guess what? Lawyers are billed for that. Always have been, always will be. I'm trying to see in this exactly what Cabo's point is and somehow it's just not jelling for me.

BTW, being from Chicago, I know that reading the Sun Times is as productive as watching Fox News. Not!

You know....you call everything that you dont agree with smear. I have posted articles from CBS.....the Chicago papers and you still call them smear. Any source that you dont agree with is a bad place. By the way the Oliver Willis link you supplied is amusing. He describes himself as a socialist

Hi Chels,

This whole thing was the product of a democratic liberal initiative to redistribute the wealth, give away mortgages to people who could not afford them and continue to pit the classes against each other for votes, consequences be damned. Cabo35, 9/28/08

See video, turn up volume, to enhance "jelling".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&eurl=

Conn8757, thanks, somehow I don't think Chelsea appreciated my return as much as you.

Using your favorite word again Bucco? Socialist! No matter how many times you use it, it won't make Obama a Socialist. It's that simple. Yes, he has programs that will help the community as a whole, like Universal or National Health Care, but that doesn't make him a Socialist.

Thought you might like to read this:

http://zillow.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=159&item=71

Interesting.

Cabo, I'm happy to see you back. Just think this post is a lot of crap!

So after reading all of the posts in this thread...I can see that we are blaming, Reagan, Carter, Clinton and Bush for this crisis that we are in. I guess I would say to everyone "IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE"....

Because here we are...in the midst of the crisis....as well as in the midst of an election....

As for the "crisis" we are in...the government will do something...somehow or another it will send some money to the banks to some how make sure that the money so many people have worked so hard for....does not disappear. WE may not have any say over the final decision on how to fix this crisis...so we will all move on with our lives....just as we always do. I hope none of you have been affected...or are in danger of being affected. My point is that no matter what the outcome is...it really doesn't matter where, when and with who it started. We all have differing opinions on it and we can argue until we are blue in the face. It will not change our opinions...it will not change the crisis or the outcome...so just stop fighting about it....is it really worth it.

As for the election....we are all scared of the outcome for one reason or another....even the parties themselves are scared of their own nominees for VP! How scary is that!!

Originally Posted by oshunluva

Wow!! Good to see that everyone is finally hitting the nails on the head. There is hope for us yet if we can eradicate all the Democrats and part of the Republicans.

Eradicate all Democrats and part of of the Republicans. Wow! Shades of Hitler!

Eradicate, hmmm, did you know this word was orignated in the Middle East and means to destroy? A little dramatic, don't you think?

Originally Posted by oshunluva

Gosh chels you are too smart for me, must be because you are from chicago, you are from chicago, right?

Yes I am and . . . yes I am. See there, we agree on something.

Originally Posted by Number 6

Right you are. There is enough blame to go around. While this crisis had its genesis in the Carter administration, no succeeding administration did anything to correct the problem. The Dems attempt to blame the Bush administration, and by extension, John McClain, is just spin with no substance. It makes me sick.

So far I have heard.....

It was Carter....It was Clinton...It was Barney Frank.

But the people in charge during the last 8 years had absolutely nothing to do with it.

It wasn't more than 8 months ago I signed up with a financial advisor who kept giving me the same old formula of selling higher risk stuff on up days (selling gains) and buying higher risk stuff on down days. Obviously, since most days have been DOWN days over the past several months, he would have had me stock up in higher risk stuff. He said NOTHING about preparing for this mess. Was he ill informed? Or was he complicit in the massive scheming? Fortunately, I asked too many questions, took up too much of his time and he dropped me.

Trust in the financial industry and in our government leaders is deservedly at an all time low.

Unfortunately, many if not most Americans are still attracted to promises of getting something for nothing. They are still looking for the easy way out. And Obama is the candidate with the best sounding promises: Cut taxes for 95% of all Americans while providing a large number of new expensive social programs for the lower and middle class. Isn't this the kind of thinking which over the past 16 years what got us into this mess?

Cassie, it matters a lot. If we are to prevent historical catastrophes like this from recurring we have to peel back the layers and find out when it started, how it started, who contributed to it, and why it was allowed to get as far as it did. We need to know so we can give it more than a quick $700B fix to soothe the nerves of the American people and call it a cure. That is not enough. It will not be over. The greatest lessons in life are learned by going through hardship, tough decisions and sacrifice, not by going around them. But, that's just me.

There are many who are complicit in perpetuating this travesty on the American taxpayer and they would like nothing more than to hear, "IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE"..... You will know them because they all read from the same playbook. You've heard the signals often. Stop the blame and finger pointing, let's move on, share the blame, let's remain calm and rational. You will hear these terms from partisans, politicians and media moguls who do not, under any circumstances want to be exposed as complicit in the perpetrating of this economic disaster. They do not want the onion to be peeled. They would love to see the American taxpayer raise the surrender flag. I don't think that's going to happen this time. The Internet has become a powerful tool that can shed light on those that would prefer the light of day not shine on them.

Our differences are that you trust the government to do the right thing....I don't. As always, I enjoy your thoughtful input and the occasional differences of opinion that make life interesting. Thanks.

As far as I'm concerned, there were no "good guys" pictured in that YouTube video, Cabo. The Democrats were bad guys because they ignored the financial facts of life in favor of pandering for the votes of their lower socio-economic constituents who were taking all the sub-prime mortgage money they could get at the time.

The Republicans pictured were also bad guys. Their party was in control of both houses of Congress and the White House at the time of the hearing. Instead of reporting the problem out of committee with the recommendation for some legislative repair of the problem, which clearly could have been enacted, they remained silent and let the issue die in committee.

The Republicans are as complicit in letting this happen as the Democrats. They all ought to be thrown out with the garbage.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

As far as I'm concerned, there were no "good guys" pictured in that YouTube video, Cabo. The Democrats were bad guys because they ignored the financial facts of life in favor of pandering for the votes of their lower socio-economic constituents who were taking all the sub-prime mortgage money they could get at the time.

The Republicans pictured were also bad guys. Their party was in control of both houses of Congress and the White House at the time of the hearing. Instead of reporting the problem out of committee with the recommendation for some legislative repair of the problem, which clearly could have been enacted, they remained silent and let the issue die in committee.

The Republicans are as complicit in letting this happen as the Democrats. They all ought to be thrown out with the garbage.

Finally Kahuna...something I can agree with. I hope you are able to continue this thought process !!

Obama successfully sued Citbank in 1994.

The original message in this thread is "uninformed". That's not the word I was thinking of, but it'll do in polite company.

The message and the link were obviously designed to get prospective voters shorts in a knot, clearly the clear objective of the posting. Here's why it is uninformed...

In 1994 Barack Obama was only a couple of years out of law school and was employed as an Associate at a mid-sized Chicago law firm. He was not a partner, nor did he have any client responsibility. Associates in law firms are those that work the long hours, prepare the legal briefs and the filings and generally operate in the background, following the instructions of the firm's partners. Associates are never assigned responsibility for litigating cases in court. Beyond that, law forms are in the business of representing clients in legal actions. Unless there's a conflict of interest or if a case is out of their practice specialty, a law firm will seldom turn down a client assignment.

So, for the original poster in this thread to suggest that "Obama sued Citibank" is ridiculous. It's like creating a headline describing the guy who sold the gun that was used to kill President Kennedy...Gunowner Kills Kennedy.

But hey, if the objective was to get people riled up and take their eyes off the real issues of this political campaign and make a decision based on emotion, the posting probably did have an effect on some people. If you think that will be in the long-term best interest of the U.S., I feel sorry for all of us.

Originally Posted by cabo35

Cassie, it matters a lot. If we are to prevent historical catastrophes like this from recurring we have to peel back the layers and find out when it started, how it started, who contributed to it, and why it was allowed to get as far as it did. We need to know so we can give it more than a quick $700B fix to soothe the nerves of the American people and call it a cure. That is not enough. It will not be over. The greatest lessons in life are learned by going through hardship, tough decisions and sacrifice, not by going around them. But, that's just me.

There are many who are complicit in perpetuating this travesty on the American taxpayer and they would like nothing more than to hear, "IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE"..... You will know them because they all read from the same playbook. You've heard the signals often. Stop the blame and finger pointing, let's move on, share the blame, let's remain calm and rational. You will hear these terms from partisans, politicians and media moguls who do not, under any circumstances want to be exposed as complicit in the perpetrating of this economic disaster. They do not want the onion to be peeled. They would love to see the American taxpayer raise the surrender flag. I don't think that's going to happen this time. The Internet has become a powerful tool that can shed light on those that would prefer the light of day not shine on them.

Our differences are that you trust the government to do the right thing....I don't. As always, I enjoy your thoughtful input and the occasional differences of opinion that make life interesting. Thanks.

Thank you for the reponse....however I would say that I DO NOT trust the government to do the right thing...but feel that there is really nothing I can do about it. I can call our congressional representatives, write letters to the governor and yell and scream at the top of my lungs.....but I honestly don't feel there is much difference that will make. Sad I know.

I would say that there are many things about the government the scare the you know what out of me...but I have to go with what I think is the lesser of two evils.

As far as "peeling back the onion"...I can understand your point. However...regardless of who it started with...it is obvious that their successors did not fix...so I suppose in reality it was everyone's fault...

No one could really for see that we were going to have a crisis...and if they did they saw it too late...and reported it too late...and still no one reacted.

I don't blame one president or another. It is the executive and legislative branches of our governments fault...all of them. One person does not make this happen. Most of the time it is not the president who makes the changes...he just signs it...depending on what his advisor's have said. So I suppose we should blame all of them....

Let's peel back the onion and figure out where it started....fine....but you know as well as I do that we will all have differing ideas about where to stop peeling...and we won't agree on that either!

So in point to my last post...we will never really know or agree on who is to really blame...so why bother? Sorry to be so pesimistic...

Just my initial thought in response to peeling back the onion....